oil build up in crankcase on commando 850 bleeding through cylinder barrel gasket

Did you do this on an 850 ? Just wondering if there's enough room between the pistons to "push out the pin"
No, it was my Atlas. My pins are loose enough to push without a puller.

If clearance is the issue, why not remove the outboard circlip, then rotate the piston enough to push on the pin? I think the rings could stand that. Maybe not. For someone who is reluctant to get into unknown territory, it is worth a shot.

Slick
 
No, it was my Atlas. My pins are loose enough to push without a puller.

If clearance is the issue, why not remove the outboard circlip, then rotate the piston enough to push on the pin? I think the rings could stand that. Maybe not. For someone who is reluctant to get into unknown territory, it is worth a shot.

Slick
Not sure what you mean by "rotate the piston"?
Both pistons rise and fall together
They are pretty close to each other and trapped in the barrel that's half raised
Maybe it's me but I'm just not seeing any logic here?
 
Not sure what you mean by "rotate the piston"?
Both pistons rise and fall together
They are pretty close to each other and trapped in the barrel that's half raised
Maybe it's me but I'm just not seeing any logic here?
You are correct! Cannot rotate pistons until the pins are removed. I guess I had a senior moment!
Sorry to mislead anyone, especially Tornado.

Slick
 
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Was thinking some kind of expanding "well" nut or similar to act as a puller on the pin. But agree it seems a lot of faffing about.
 
Was thinking some kind of expanding "well" nut or similar to act as a puller on the pin. But agree it seems a lot of faffing about.
Well, if I were in your shoes, AND had to do over the exercise I had to go thru to get the 3 piece Hastings oil control rings compressed so I could get the piston into the bore, I would find a way to pull the gudgeon pins, so as to pull the barrels with the pistons in the bores. I have a professional quality ring compressor, which did not work, tried a 3 inch worm clamp to no avail, and finally had to resort to compressing each piece of the oil control ring separately, pushing down the piston to retain that piece, then fitting and compressing the next piece, and so on.

It seems to me, that an "L" shaped tip at the end of a 4 inch threaded rod could hook the end of the inboard side of the pin, without hooking the circlip as well. Then apply a washer and nut to the threaded portion, and pull by tightening the nut. I would expect the pin to yield without symmetrical pressure on both sides of the pins' edge.

Do-able?, or am I having another senior moment?

Slick
 
When putting barrels over piston/rings is 4 hands is better than 2, I have VW ring compressors but sometimes just as easy to have someone hold and lower the barrels and the other person closing/pushing the rings into the right position as I found using the ring compressor the bottom ring pops out before going into the bores then after fitting have to remove the ring compressors so find it easier to use my fingers and a small screw driver and a friend, even using ring compressors is still good to have extra hands to help.
 
I have done this "fitting piston into barrel" task many, many times. This thread is rejuvenating some old memories of how it went. First, dismantling the piston from the rod: Unless the engine has been kept meticulously clean wilth ashless oils there will be a ridge of "shelac" or baked on dry oil on the pin between the rod and the piston. This ridge will make it difficult or impossible to press or pull the pin out of the piston with your fingers. With a suitable pin puller that misses the circlip it could be done but not likely.

Once the engine is at operating temperatrue the pins are full floating but cold the fit of the pin in the piston is a hard "thumb press" fit. I have encountered pistons (not Hepolite) whose pin bores were a press fit. In this case once assembled, the piston had to be forced to move on the rod with a good bit of wrist action. These pistons took a trip to the Sunnen Pin Fitter for some quality time until they were a thumb push fit. Pins, of course, should have NO radial play.

All this is to say that the pistons should be removed from the bores, the pin fit exmined, the skirts examined for scuffing, the ring-to-groove clearance checked, the ring end-gap checked and the bore taper and piston-to- cylinder-wall clearance checked. All this can be done with a set of quality feeler gauges. You don't need expensive bore gauges, though if you do much of this work you'll need them. When you have the barrel off check the base for flatness. It it's not flat, get it that way or it will continue to leak; likewise the cases. Reassembly is not that big a deal. Heat the pistons with a hair dryer if your thumbs are not strong. If you must use much heat, the pins are too tight. Use the plywood support method and good ring compressors made for that purpose. Also note that the bottom of the bore has a chamfer to help guide the rings in.

Don't rely on the previous shop's thoroughness or expertise. Even mechanics who know what they're doing make mistakes-- maybe the phone rang in the middle of something and they lost track or where they were in the process, maybe they had a bad day, or a headache but had to press on because they had several more bikes waiting in line. Use patience and attention to detail. As they say, it's not brain surgery. Novices do it successfully all the time.
 
Depending on how tight the pin fit is you may well have to heat the piston to get the pin out and in (hot air gun here) All the commandos ive worked on needed this. A slotted board across the cases and a pair of ring clamps work fine, make sure the bottom of the bore has a smooth taper lead in. The ring clamps i still use are forty plus years old and i had to trim them down in width the first time i came to use them, to enable me to get them out after the bottom of the barrels had got past the rings.
 
Now you guys have me worrying whether my loose pins are something I should worry about!

The last pistons and pins that were in the bike,, had the same loose fit, went 50-60K miles, so I think I will put the worry on hold.

Slick
 
Slick, you will know. The wrist pins will rattle if they're too loose, a light double click. It gets worse as the engine heats up unlike piston slap that goes away or should unless a collapsed piston.
 
Looks like a good tool and I want one! But you still have to deal with the back-side circlip when removing it with the barrel still attached. I suppose with right-angle pliers one could possibly extract the dirclip(s) but the risk of dropping one into the case is ever present. How long would it take to fish that out again? Even a case stuffed with rags.
 
A thin smear of Araldite or similar around the joint and keep riding it til you REALLY need to strip the engine, then just put it on the bench
 
A thin smear of Araldite or similar around the joint and keep riding it til you REALLY need to strip the engine, then just put it on the bench
Yes been thinking this is the way to go. The seep is not large. Seems like two spots around the barrel base. Have checked torque on outer base nuts and all OK. Might get some low viscosity silicone sealant (for automotive windshields etc) and see if it can work.
 
Yes been thinking this is the way to go. The seep is not large. Seems like two spots around the barrel base. Have checked torque on outer base nuts and all OK. Might get some low viscosity silicone sealant (for automotive windshields etc) and see if it can work.
There is a green, wicking Loctite (820?) that I've used on porous castings to stop leaks. It's good for ~300 deg. F they say.
 
There is a green, wicking Loctite (820?) that I've used on porous castings to stop leaks. It's good for ~300 deg. F they say.
Yes I have some of that and did try it on this joint. Seemed to maybe have reduced seep. May need another few applications. It needs anaerobic (airless) conditions to setup right. So maybe need to tape or cellophane over joint while it sets.
 
Do you have a breather? I have the simple to install reed valve version on mine. I believe it greatly reduced leaks.
 
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