OIF Cdo
- Thread starter Fast Eddie
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seriously Eddie it really wouldn't be hard to convert a commando frame to oif I wouldn't hesitate doing it myself if that was what I fancied,the only thing I wouldn't like is the loook of the petrol tank where you would have to notch it around the oil filler capFast Eddie said:
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OIF can - if done well, a loss of mass, a cleaner view through side or more storage or device space. More cooling surface for hotted up engine use too. I expect a further level of tri-linked exquisite isolation with more mass inside isolastic sprung frame mass full of vibration dampening fluid. Its considered an engineering double success if able to get same structure to do two different functions well. Might improve CoG reactions a bit by spreading oil mass more to upper front than under butt. Not likely noticed unless needing to avoid a bit better inline wheelies or resisting front lifting out of traction in some turns.
On the other hand its something interesting-distracting to attempt successfully before ya die. Air station takes up some Peel's missing oil tank area & allows eliminating the side covers needed to hide factory Commando clutter. Peel's IS tank does not need notching for a filler tube but did need moving rearward 3/4" which solves the seat gap annoyance. Oh yeah in Peel case there are 4 spinal tube taps, one of them, is clear 1/2" plastic that allows flow to oil pump on long very steep down hill creeps or long hard braking from hi speed plus is a sight tube a glance tells if good to go or top off and how dark age oil is.
On the other hand its something interesting-distracting to attempt successfully before ya die. Air station takes up some Peel's missing oil tank area & allows eliminating the side covers needed to hide factory Commando clutter. Peel's IS tank does not need notching for a filler tube but did need moving rearward 3/4" which solves the seat gap annoyance. Oh yeah in Peel case there are 4 spinal tube taps, one of them, is clear 1/2" plastic that allows flow to oil pump on long very steep down hill creeps or long hard braking from hi speed plus is a sight tube a glance tells if good to go or top off and how dark age oil is.
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"4 spinal tube taps"...i smell a movie about VICTORY...
Fast Eddie
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eskasteve said:
Weight distribution is a good point and one I'd not thought of. Taking weight away from the oil tank area, which is very central, and transferring the bulk of it to the top tube, which is very high, certainly isn't a move that would be supported by Eric Buell ...!
acadian
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Personally, I think my OIF triumph 750 is one of the best handling vintage brit bikes I've ever ridden. And My commando is no slouch, well sorted.
My main concern with converting the commando frame would be the weight redistribution as, unlike the triumph (whose oil bearing tube runs vertical down the centreline, keeping the COG as low as possible), the commando would keep all that weight up top. Not good ju-ju depending on the type of riding you do
My main concern with converting the commando frame would be the weight redistribution as, unlike the triumph (whose oil bearing tube runs vertical down the centreline, keeping the COG as low as possible), the commando would keep all that weight up top. Not good ju-ju depending on the type of riding you do
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The logical oil feed pick up to the pump would be at the lowest point on the back of the frame tube. Anybody thought about what happens under hard braking; does all the oil slosh forward, leaving the oil feed pump to suck air?
I have my ideas on a remedy (assuming there is a problem) but was wondering about others thoughts. With the Triumph OIF, you at least have a nice vertical reservoir at the back of the frame tube; not the case on a Commando
I have my ideas on a remedy (assuming there is a problem) but was wondering about others thoughts. With the Triumph OIF, you at least have a nice vertical reservoir at the back of the frame tube; not the case on a Commando
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Mark said:
Getting the centre of gravity low does not always make the handling better, especially with low-powered bikes. The positive feel comes from the bike rocking backwards as you accelerate. If the centre of gravity is higher, that effect is slightly increased - the bike squats more in the rear end changing the rake at the steering head, so if the trail is correct, the bike self-steers and slightly tightens it's line in corners. It creates confidence. The CofG in a Commando is probably best when well forward and slightly above the centre line of the bike.
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Mark said:
One thing that comes to mind is reducing unsprung mass.
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As Ken said if it ain't an isolastic smoothie then its just not pleasant enough to put up with in real life. THE Gravel teaches All, especially about the sweet spot of CoG on pivot points of cycle rotation/spin and tip axii, especially when tires slightly or suddenly slipping ei: vertical and horizontal balance points. Factory manual say horizontal axis is 19.5" off ground but the pilot mass raises it to about hip level for a natural sense of lean amounts w/o putting a knee out as a curb feeler. THE Gravel roar or pavement screeching reveal surprise unsweetness CoG vs predicable self correction to seek it out. Is an OIF Commando enough to notice, who really knows but is a logical move towards it.
One can over power CoG to some degree by spinning rear to pivot on front patch tending to low side like a flat tractor or over braking front to pivot on rear tending to hi sides jerk ups like trail brakers. Too fat an ass end tends to swap ends too easy on slipping rear or rear unloading / lifting braking. Any extra effort it takes to control a cycle at limits is what will take it down suddenly, effort to hold far down, effort to pop back up in time, jerky forks with a damper crutch.
THE Raw Gravel and road Grit or wet grass taught that moderns snap ya butt down more than just swing out to help steering like a Commando CoG tends to do. CoG affects both where a long its length a cycle pivots or tips over when tires let go. I hit fresh cow paddies in deep grass, modern makes me scream as almost snap down while Command evokes a Rebel Yell crossing up some while staying mostly vertical.
Some moderns have such hi CoG lengthwise that I've seen the elite pilots perfectly controlling power/traction/lean/sharpness to have the G force vector lift the tires pivoting on this CoG to fly off the tangent taking out a few others like bowling pins. Tires did not break free > simply levered up, aggravated by pilots hanging to inside raising CoG enough to suddenly get completely horizontal. Its happened to me testing lean grip on SV650 w/o going around very hard while heading home on warm tires. Its so sudden at such seeming mild loads I gave up and gave SuVee away to an ex-racer with spare race tires to boot.
If CoG is too low then cycle is too stable and takes more effort to lean and will fight ya trying to get back up on extreme turns, sort of like the punching bag dolls with sanded filled bottoms. Should consider this a pendulum metronome effect.
Acertel rants reveals he knows what I'm talking about but he must put up with Seeley vibe sensations that overlap/mimic/blur/conceal tire patch grip sense. When I let Peel's hair down I'm hugging tank close as can - or risk flung off or rubbing boots or knees raw. On a quick cycle the direction changes happen too fast to switch sides in chicanes and whole pilot movement during the suddenly unloaded frame/suspension transition intervals can be enough to induce frame wiggle into tire patches and forks, YEHAWW Ride Em Cowboy!
As the song goes, some do, some don't and others its just as well...
One can over power CoG to some degree by spinning rear to pivot on front patch tending to low side like a flat tractor or over braking front to pivot on rear tending to hi sides jerk ups like trail brakers. Too fat an ass end tends to swap ends too easy on slipping rear or rear unloading / lifting braking. Any extra effort it takes to control a cycle at limits is what will take it down suddenly, effort to hold far down, effort to pop back up in time, jerky forks with a damper crutch.
THE Raw Gravel and road Grit or wet grass taught that moderns snap ya butt down more than just swing out to help steering like a Commando CoG tends to do. CoG affects both where a long its length a cycle pivots or tips over when tires let go. I hit fresh cow paddies in deep grass, modern makes me scream as almost snap down while Command evokes a Rebel Yell crossing up some while staying mostly vertical.
Some moderns have such hi CoG lengthwise that I've seen the elite pilots perfectly controlling power/traction/lean/sharpness to have the G force vector lift the tires pivoting on this CoG to fly off the tangent taking out a few others like bowling pins. Tires did not break free > simply levered up, aggravated by pilots hanging to inside raising CoG enough to suddenly get completely horizontal. Its happened to me testing lean grip on SV650 w/o going around very hard while heading home on warm tires. Its so sudden at such seeming mild loads I gave up and gave SuVee away to an ex-racer with spare race tires to boot.
If CoG is too low then cycle is too stable and takes more effort to lean and will fight ya trying to get back up on extreme turns, sort of like the punching bag dolls with sanded filled bottoms. Should consider this a pendulum metronome effect.
Acertel rants reveals he knows what I'm talking about but he must put up with Seeley vibe sensations that overlap/mimic/blur/conceal tire patch grip sense. When I let Peel's hair down I'm hugging tank close as can - or risk flung off or rubbing boots or knees raw. On a quick cycle the direction changes happen too fast to switch sides in chicanes and whole pilot movement during the suddenly unloaded frame/suspension transition intervals can be enough to induce frame wiggle into tire patches and forks, YEHAWW Ride Em Cowboy!
As the song goes, some do, some don't and others its just as well...
I owned a BMW 1150 GS with a 8 gallon tank, the most top heavy motorcycle I have ever ridden!
I was so happy to unload that bike.
I owned a Honda Goldwing GL1100, the most stable bike I have ever ridden!
I have two more of them out in the shop right now.
I don't know what that proves other than I must like carrying the weight low.
To each their own I guess.
I was so happy to unload that bike.
I owned a Honda Goldwing GL1100, the most stable bike I have ever ridden!
I have two more of them out in the shop right now.
I don't know what that proves other than I must like carrying the weight low.
To each their own I guess.
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