NorVin . Norton Vincent .

J.A.W. · Nov 4, 2012

Potato..potato...potato?
Aco, did you mean mechanical threshing type noise or combustion process sound?
The big H-Ds have conservative timings [hence the constipated huffing & puffing] & hydraulic lash compensation/control - but an iron Sportster in 40`C ambient grinds out a real agricultural..threshing.. syncopation
? for you, why do Triumph twins run so much more ignition advance than Nortons?,

Matt Spencer · Nov 4, 2012

This is as theyre renouned for their efficency of Combustion . Though everyones forgot .

Knactually , they both run 3/8 B.T.D.C. so they have something in common ( besides rust proofing

) unless they set thy C'do at 28 . Possibly 31 for Snorton , 28 deg. for trundling at speed . :? 8)

acotrel · Nov 7, 2012

@J.A.W
'
? for you, why do Triumph twins run so much more ignition advance than Nortons?,

The same reason that Nortons are better than Triumphs - the head design. If you have a look at a Triumph piston which has been raced alot, you weill see that it is a lot darker and carbonned up on the side away from the plug. Nortons have a squish band. I don't understand why someone would build an 82mm stroke norton and hemisphere the head, you might as well start with a Triumph engine and have the advantage of versatile cam setup. The Norton is inferior in that scenario. Rod length also affects rock-over time. From memory I'm running 34 degrees advance in my 850 on alcohol. I used to run 44 degrees on my 63mm stroke Triumph using a 650 head and 12 to one piston, to give 10 to one comp ratio. It is the one really big disadvantage with the ultra short stroke motor. I'd like to try that exercise again with a Rickman head.

J.A.W. · Nov 7, 2012

Thanks for the reply Aco, do you know the ignition advance timings that your bro runs in his Vincent & Kaw triple sidehacks?

acotrel · Nov 19, 2012

I believe the H2 Kawasaki runs standard advance - it is on methanol. Most fast two strokes run less advance on petrol than the same configuration road bike. I don't know what advance he is running in the Vincent, but it is normal to increase it by four degrees when you change from petrol to methanol in a four stroke.

Matt Spencer · Dec 3, 2012

http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/show ... &showall=1

J.A.W. · Dec 7, 2012

Matt, as - being not completely off-subject, can you find any Vindian pix?

Rohan · Dec 7, 2012

It is rather off subject - completely different direction = performance engine in a totally touring chassis.

http://indianmcc.com/vindian.html

P.S. It is said that "no major frame changes" involved cutting the frame tube above the engine !!

PPS Vincents 'were not reliable for everyday use' ??

J.A.W. · Dec 7, 2012

Vincati,Norvin,Egli-Vin,Vindian, hmmm...does seem to be some not totally disparate theme running there...but has anyone seen an H-D mill in a Vincent chassis?

Rohan · Dec 7, 2012

J.A.W. said:
Vincati,Norvin,Egli-Vin,Vindian, hmmm...does seem to be some not totally disparate theme running there..

Putting a performance engine into a cruiser style frame is definitely going against the flow there.

..but has anyone seen an H-D mill in a Vincent chassis?

There is a pic around somewhere of a Sportster mill in an Egli type frame.
Given that Buell engines can pump out 100+ bhp, and Egli spine frames were for some wee while claimed to be the ultimate, this is a performance Egli on a (tiny ?) budget.

Mind you, those NEW 8 valve 1600cc Irving Vincent engines are not exactly short of power !
180+ bhp is not hanging around. Probably not-so-tiny a budget though... ??

P.S. There are also all those Sporty engines in featherbed frames - Sportons, Narleys, Featherbreds, etc. Not exactly budget builds, but a lot more available than Vinnie engines, these days ?

Matt Spencer · Dec 7, 2012

http://www.thevincent.com/vin-suppliers.html

J.A.W. · Dec 7, 2012

Rohan, weren`t most Vincents built as 'Gentlemen's tourers'? A British equivalent of the big American V-twins? & I doubt that the term 'cruiser' was applied to Indian [ or Vincent] motorcycles when new..

Rohan · Dec 7, 2012

Are you kidding ?
Half* the Vincents sold were raced ??
*probably an exaggeration, but look in old race reports from that era.
Lotta Vinnie owners musta tried them out at some stage.

Some Chiefs were 'raced' too, but seriously.. ?
(Unless it had been 'chouted'.) (Chief motor in scout frame).
(Indian factory raced hotted up Scouts and Sport Scouts)

One of the options for Vincents was touring mudguards, and you do sometimes see them with these still fitted. I've heard someone tell a Vinnie owner these guards, fitted, were 'wrong' !!!
Thats how common touring Vinnies are ?

J.A.W. · Dec 8, 2012

1/2! Yeah right...Those series D Black Prince tourers, ugly as sin, no wonder they wouldn`t sell...even if they were the Suzuki GSX-R 1300 `Busa of the day..

Rohan · Dec 8, 2012

And how many of those did they sell ?
Change of emphasis, to see where the market had gone. ??

Sold more NSU Quicklys then, in one year, than all Vincent production.
Market had changed....

Matt Spencer · Dec 8, 2012

A hyabusa at 100 + on dirt roads ? :lol: :lol: :lol: No comparison .

Thanks to Edmundo Lucas Girardengo of Argentina for this picture. It shows his father (on the left with his arms crossed) in a round Argentina Rally.

in what respect was a suzuki 1300 worlsd leading , other than overweight oversized and overpowered . :roll:

OH , it was the FASTEST . for five minutes .till they came up with the next one . :wink:

J.A.W. · Dec 8, 2012

No air-filtration on those poor dirt eating suckers..hi-abuse-ive..L.O.L..
As for the big porker Suzuki, its claim to fame was quickest/fastest - in its day, just like the Vincent...
C.W. tested a GSX-R 1300 in `99, got 0-60 mph in 2.6 sec; 1/4 mile in 9.86 sec @ 145.80 mph; 194 mph top speed; RWHP/TQ, 160.5 hp @ 9250 / 99.9 ft lb @ 7550 rpm..
Weight... plenty... & none faster now...in fact - there was a press kerfuffle about such performance being available for $10,499...rich people in Ferraris & Mc Larens should not have the indignity of being wasted by a mere motorcycle...so Nippon self-imposed a 186mph/300km/h speed limit on their bikes...

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

My brother is currently restoring a Vincent speedway outfit. It is coming along beautifully, however he says that nearly every bolt on it is a s pecial. In the old days you would have been totally at the mercy of the dealers . Some of the modern replacement parts are interesting. Such as fork spindles which have been drilled with lubrication holes. Vincent solos have been known to go into tank slappers at 70mph, and chuck the rider off, due to fork spindle wear and loose dampers under the seat.

acotrel · Dec 9, 2012

J.A.W and Rohan,
A Vincent is substantially different from an Indian, a good Vincent will turn out 100 BHP. It is better than any Harley or Indian ever was. Comparing one with a Hayabusa is silly, it is like comparing a racing draught horse with a racing thoroughbred. Back in the old days , very few people owned a vincent , we all rode 650 Triumphs. My triumph was hotted up to the max. and would absolutely kill any Vincent up to 100mph. A friend of mine bought a rapide, and did the works to it, it had a comp.ratio of 13 to 1, and ran methanol on public roads . I rode it once, and it absolutely amazed me. I couldn't figure out where all the forwards urge was coming from. It didn't rev, but did it bloody go ! It is easy to build something which will grab you by the throat and scare you silly - start with a Vincent. THis one is not a vincent, but a 1400cc retro. It is faster than most modern racing Ducatis :

Rohan · Dec 9, 2012

acotrel said:
My brother is currently restoring a Vincent speedway outfit. It is coming along beautifully, however he says that nearly every bolt on it is a s pecial. In the old days you would have been totally at the mercy of the dealers . Some of the modern replacement parts are interesting. Such as fork spindles which have been drilled with lubrication holes. Vincent solos have been known to go into tank slappers at 70mph, and chuck the rider off, due to fork spindle wear and loose dampers under the seat.

Every bolt in a Norton somewhere prior to AMC is a 'special' too - unusual domed head, 26 tpi cycle thread, AND satin chromed to boot. Bikes restored by bodgers stand out a mile.....

But every bolt in an Indian is special too - all 24 tpi.
And Harley were what, all 28 tpi ?, for quite some years.
And BA, for Lucas electrics etc was a borrowed swiss clockmakers (metric) thread.

That 'U' (for unified) in UNF etc means a lot, first time thread and bolt makers had agreed on anything. (Commando went UNF, sort of.)

P.S. Loose parts in the suspension is never a good idea - fork clamp bolts also need to be tight, for a very good reason. As do brake anchor bolts. Even good tires/tubes on wheels is a concept not everyone thinks about....

NorVin . Norton Vincent .

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