Norton Dominator 99 problems

Bernhard said:
Nortoniggy said:
Your Pb137 regulator is rated at 1.5 amps which is why it exploded. It's designed for low output battery chargers.
Ian
Click to expand...

Well it appears you are using cheapo components in your home made reg/rec –they simply are not up to the job, you can bet your shirt that the superior parts in the Lucas reg/rec were ordered in bulk and therefore cheaper than you can buy them at- me thinks you may have to bite the bullet and obtain the genuine article, are there not any bike breakers in Finland :?:
You are not restricted to getting one off a Norton as BSA Triumph and others also used the same components.
Click to expand...

Hello, yes we have some bike breakers but only 3phase rec/regs have come by so far, someone said that you could have chance to use 3phase rec/reg with one phase alternator, but not all will work. Well again, it would be bit of a risk to buy 3-phase rec/reg and try it, repeat untill i find working one. Gets expensive if not lucky at the first time.

I was thinking about this kind of setup: the local spare parts shop had only regulators to offer me, so maybe i could use homemade rectifier (MB3510, 35A 1000V) + that snowmobile regulator from the shop, also i need to change the system to negative ground, but its not an problem since only need to put negative lead to ground and positive lead to wires.

I was doing the keyswitch plate today, and i think tomorrow i'll make new wirings to the bike all the way. I can get the regulator earliest next monday.
 
The switch key plate almost finished.

Made it out of aluminium sheet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems Its gonna be located in that hole between seat and tank.

Norton Dominator 99 problems Plate is not surface finished yet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems

Norton Dominator 99 problems At this point it starts to be ready. Also fixed few small dents off. Started with p60 grinding paper all the way to p2000, then fine grinding compound and last cleaning wax.

I need to also paint the inside tank with same grey/silver as it is outside. At the moment its black inside so when its grey it smoothens out.

Edit:
Norton Dominator 99 problems Tried this thing out, using black silicon mass to get nice even black edge to get it look a like black strip. If it works out good, then i'll try to add red stripe also to the aluninium sheet, so it would blend in with the tank.
 
KuusistoNorton said:
The switch key plate almost finished.

Made it out of aluminium sheet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems Its gonna be located in that hole between seat and tank.

Norton Dominator 99 problems Plate is not surface finished yet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems
quote]
A sure fire way to make you eyes water every time you go hard over a large bump/pothole-ouch I felt that :!: :shock:
Click to expand...
 
Im gonna try out third time to post reply.

The regulator that i bought did not work.

I made measurements and rectifier output is 10-80Vdc depending on rpm. Thats why the first reg blew up, because it had only max 40Vdc input.

When rectifier leads are attached to the battery and light circuit, voltage is 12,5-15,5Vdc lights off, depending on rpm. Lights on it is 12-14Vdc. No regulator fitted at all this point

The regulator has only two wires, yellow and black, i asked the seller how it should be attached and he said that it doesnt matter how and where, but positive to the yellow wire and black is ground. Also regs body is grounding.

I did that and it did not work. I attached yellow wire to +Vdc from light circuit and black was ground. Anyway the only reasonable attachment is to attach it in parrarrel with the circuit, its impossible to attach it to series.

The first reg that blew up had 3 legs, positive input, ground and positive output. That was attached in series, located between rectifier and battery.

Did i do something wrong or was the reg possibly already broken and thats why it did not work, or do i have wrong type of regulator? Its little weird though that it did not even warm up at all, and no sounds of popping or anything. Ill go see that seller tomorrow and ask again, and maybe change it to another one.

Could i use DC alternators regulator? I would use only D+ for input and B+ for regulated output. The regulator wont know if its my rectifier or DC alternator that is feeding the input.
Norton Dominator 99 problems Here is the reg i tried

Norton Dominator 99 problems Here is DC alternator reg.
 
Bernhard said:
KuusistoNorton said:
The switch key plate almost finished.

Made it out of aluminium sheet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems Its gonna be located in that hole between seat and tank.

Norton Dominator 99 problems Plate is not surface finished yet.
Norton Dominator 99 problems
quote]
A sure fire way to make you eyes water every time you go hard over a large bump/pothole-ouch I felt that :!: :shock:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Haha, yes maybe, but certainly hope not! :D

Luckily there is about 15cm distance betweem my groin and key so i hope ill never hit it.
 
KuusistoNorton said:
Could i use DC alternators regulator? I would use only D+ for input and B+ for regulated output. The regulator wont know if its my rectifier or DC alternator that is feeding the input.

Norton Dominator 99 problems Here is DC alternator reg.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a 'dynamo' or 'DC generator' (not 'DC alternator') regulator, so I doubt you could get that to work.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T1-BEETLE- ... xy4fBTkERB
 
Hello,

More searching through internet and it might seem that those 2wire regulators are meant to regulate AC voltage. So that maybe the reason why it did not work when attached to DC circuit.

How should it be attached if i would like to try it out? I have 2 alternator wires, can i attach other one to regulator and the other to ground or is this bad?

I think i just might call local bike braker and buy used 3phase rectifier and try it out..

LAB, why wouldnt it possibly work? Dynamo or DC generator regulator has 4terminals, D+, B+, DF and "61", but i would only need to use 2 of them. D+ is +Vdc input from Dynamo or DC generator, and B+ is +Vdc output which is regulated. I've understood that DF and 61 is the trigger system to get the generator charging in the beginning. But however more likely i am wrong and you are right, it wont work. Also its not even designed to use in this kind of system so anyway its far-fetchet.
 
Okay, i think i'm starting to have enough with this.

All those hours spent on building and soldering components and testings, head scratching, no working solution yet. So i think im just gonna give up and order rec/reg from uk.

It costs what it costs but if i just would have bought it right in the first place it would have been cheaper and the bike would have been running already few weeks ago.

I just need to admit my failure at this point.

Norton Dominator 99 problems Is this right one that will work? Just hook alternator yellow wires to yellow ones and red is positive and black is ground?

It doesnt matter if the system is positive or negative ground? I was thinking that i would use the system as negative ground and use battery along with lights.
 
Now i am only hoping that RGM rec/reg has enough capacity to handle my alternator output. I sended email and asked about the specs of it, but no answer so far.

If that one doesnt work either and blews up right away, then im going to lose it.

Since they are selling it for Nortons i would assume that it can handle 120w input, its kind of stupid to sell it without telling "important" specs of the item.
 
Hello,

Never mind the RGM item, i contacted Al at AOservices and he has A Reg One that is perfectly suitable for my RM21 alternator. He also did have the MagKey that im also going take that aswell so i can ditch the relay setup.
http://www.aoservices.co.uk/index.htm#service

Atleast i hope i can buy them from AOservices, i send email but i havent got answer yet, and not sure if he is able to send it to me here Finland.

If things wont work out with AOservices soon, then i'll contact Norbsa, they seem to have also A Reg Ones and Magkeys, not sure if they are even the exactly same as AOservices, atleast same prices.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

Norbsa says about the A Reg One:

"These 12V regulators suit any Lucas / Miller / Wipac type alternator and replace the Zener diode and the rectifier. They can also be used when converting from 6V to 12V and come with full instructions. Very reliable & simple to install.

They are rated at 25A which is 300W and have been tested to max. output with our 200W alternator

They can be used without a battery if a Capacitor is fitted, see below. Can be wired Pos. or neg. earth

They are suitable for std. 120W & high output 200W alternators"

And AOservices says its 12V and 200w but probably its rated 300W as the Norbsa is also, but atleast 100% suitable for 200W alternators. I believe both sells same products.
 
After rereading some of your posts there is a danger that your alternator has taken so much abuse that any new, or otherwise reg/rec will not solve your problem because the alternator is knackered-don’t ask me how I know :!:
 
Hello,

Well i have also small fear that my alternator would be damaged, but simple light bulb test shows that it could just be okay. Maybe now that i have time i should make good tests to the alternator to check its condition.

I cannot be sure about the alternator condition for sure unless i fit new right rec/reg.

You told me to not to ask how you know, but still i must ask.

Doesnt the alternator lose its power if it is broken somehow, charging is weak. I cant believe that it could broke the way its somehow starting to produce more voltage and amps?

Edit: Commando manual has tutorial how to test alternator with 1 ohm resistor, so when get off from work ill go get 1ohm resistor and test it out. It should not read under 9Vac at 3000rpm with the resistor.
 
Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways, i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results, test would be indicating alternator is fine.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound). Indicating magnets arent weakened that much yet.

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)

Edit: Removed my explanation.
 
KuusistoNorton said:
Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways (attaching one wire to + and one to - on the bulb, and the bulb lit up and then one wire fitted to + and bulbs - fitted to engine ground, light did not lit) i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound).

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)
Click to expand...

Bulbs don't have + and -.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
KuusistoNorton said:
Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways (attaching one wire to + and one to - on the bulb, and the bulb lit up and then one wire fitted to + and bulbs - fitted to engine ground, light did not lit) i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound).

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)
Click to expand...

Bulbs don't have + and -.
Click to expand...

Well indeed, they do not, oops.
 
Hello,

Small update, the A Reg One and Magkey came today, and i am really pleased that the charging system finally works propely.

With the lighs OFF the battery charging voltage wont exceed 14,6Volts and with lights ON it was around 13,5-13,8Volts. So i am happy with that.

Also the Magkey has 4wires, two black wires and two red wires. When the key is OFF position the black wires are together (beeping with VOM) and red ones are not. When the key is ON position the black wires are no longer together and the red ones are.

So OFF position magneto cut out is grounding and battery is not connected to the circuit and when ON position the magneto is no longer grounded and battery is connected to the circuit. The magkey is just like the one i was looking for and exactly like the one i descripted with NC and NO terminals.
 
Nortoniggy said:
Your Pb137 regulator is rated at 1.5 amps which is why it exploded. It's designed for low output battery chargers.
Ian
Click to expand...

I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts.
I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts. You need to have taken the size of the resistors from that, anything undersize will have blown as you found out.
Glad you have found a reg/rec but are you only getting 13 odd volts when engine is revved to 2 – 3 k :?:
 
Bernhard said:
Nortoniggy said:
Your Pb137 regulator is rated at 1.5 amps which is why it exploded. It's designed for low output battery chargers.
Ian
Click to expand...

I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts.
I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts. You need to have taken the size of the resistors from that, anything undersize will have blown as you found out.
Glad you have found a reg/rec but are you only getting 13 odd volts when engine is revved to 2 – 3 k :?:
Click to expand...

Hello,

Not sure about the rpms but certainly without load it wont charge over 14,6V at any point.

I want to fit fuses also to the circuit so what size they should be? If the alternator outputs max 10A should the fuses be 10A or more? Maybe 15A?
 

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