NEC NORTON

The DOT bike is pretty cool.
Not crazy about the tubing swingarm, would prefer box section alloy unit, but the eccentric chain adjusters are great. The rear wheel will always be in alignment with the front, no effort required at all.
Maybe replace the Kawa 650 mill with a Norton 650 unit when available.
Made in Manchester too.
Very cool.
 
Have to put this out there.... Why should any 'new' Commando have to be: 'retro?'
The 'original' was an attempt to go forwards, not backwards. Okay, the hoped for 'new' powerplant turned out to be a white elephant, but what eventually appeared was considered reasonably 'cutting edge', no? Five times: 'MCN Machine Of The Year' etc. etc...
Doubtless TVS have a few 'Norton' model names at their disposal, what if the next one's an A2 BSA challenger called: 'Manx?'
Just saying....
 
Look up DOT Motorcycle at NEC 2021 . DOT stands for (Devoid Of Trouble) There is pictures and a video , looks great Kawi twin 650 engine .
It's too bad that SG's operation is defunct, he could have created the SPOT 961:
Serious Preponderance Of Trouble 961.
 
Look up DOT Motorcycle at NEC 2021 . DOT stands for (Devoid Of Trouble) There is pictures and a video , looks great Kawi twin 650 engine .
Like the bike. But lost me when he said they use a Kaw engine.
 
Like the bike. But lost me when he said they use a Kaw engine.
Well there is a lot going for it , namely parts and service. Also , this engine is used in other racing bikes like the Patton . There will be go fast parts options etc.. I see the engine as a well known and positive point I guess .
 
Well there is a lot going for it , namely parts and service. Also , this engine is used in other racing bikes like the Patton . There will be go fast parts options etc.. I see the engine as a well known and positive point I guess .
Not disputing it’s a great engine. But what is the point of talking about how much is British made and made in house and spoiled by the use of Japanese engine and suspension?
 
Have to put this out there.... Why should any 'new' Commando have to be: 'retro?'
The 'original' was an attempt to go forwards, not backwards. Okay, the hoped for 'new' powerplant turned out to be a white elephant, but what eventually appeared was considered reasonably 'cutting edge', no? Five times: 'MCN Machine Of The Year' etc. etc...
Doubtless TVS have a few 'Norton' model names at their disposal, what if the next one's an A2 BSA challenger called: 'Manx?'
Just saying....
In actual fact the Commando was (is still) brilliant but essentially a desperate stopgap model. Sales were plummeting massively they had to come up with something or go under. The bold futuristic Fastback was not a big hit with the buying public (especially in the U.S.) so they went back to a more familiar (Classic) layout which, as we know is what we are all still celebrating over 50 years later on here.
 
Not disputing it’s a great engine. But what is the point of talking about how much is British made and made in house and spoiled by the use of Japanese engine and suspension?
Well , That will cost a lot more money of course and may not be any better. Not everybody has enough money to buy a Norton , especially this new V4$$ .
 
Well , That will cost a lot more money of course and may not be any better. Not everybody has enough money to buy a Norton , especially this new V4$$ .
How much is a DOT?
The only point I’m making is, why is the guy from DOT talking about the bike being proudly made in the UK in their own factory, but the engine is Japanese.
 
Between £17000- £24000 depending upon the spec you choose. Suggest you read his previous attempt at building a super car. The parent company Keating Kinetics financials make interesting reading.
 
In actual fact the Commando was (is still) brilliant but essentially a desperate stopgap model. Sales were plummeting massively they had to come up with something or go under. The bold futuristic Fastback was not a big hit with the buying public (especially in the U.S.) so they went back to a more familiar (Classic) layout which, as we know is what we are all still celebrating over 50 years later on here.
Hi Cliffa
Yes, good points of which I am aware, but my point was the Commando name was attached to what for a long time was their flagship model, not something that's appears to be being kept at the back of the cupboard...
 
How much is a DOT?
The only point I’m making is, why is the guy from DOT talking about the bike being proudly made in the UK in their own factory, but the engine is Japanese.
Certainly could ask many car and motorcycle manufacturers the same question:
1) Lotus have made some of the best driving cars for decades using externally sourced engines, mostly Toyota lately.
2) Bimota, known for great handling/riding motorcycles, have always (except one poor in-house engine) have used many different manufacturers' engines.
3) Norton has borrowed technology from Wankel and Rotax.
4) Toyota now use a BMW engine in the Supra.
5) Corvette ZR-1 (LT5) engine was designed by Lotus.
6) Mercedes have used Renault engines.
7) Alfa Romeo and Maserati have used Ferrari engines.
8) Aston-Martin and Pagani have used Mercedes-AMG engine.

At one point I was a purist on the matter as well, but have come to realize that global competition have moved us to a new world of outsourcing not just simple parts, but also critical components.
 
Out sourcing is very common.
In the late 50's Indian Motorcycles imported Royal Enfields and badged them as Indians.
Cagiva used Suzuki TL1000 motors in their Raptor.
 
1) Lotus have made some of the best driving cars for decades using externally sourced engines, mostly Toyota lately.
2) Bimota, known for great handling/riding motorcycles, have always (except one poor in-house engine) have used many different manufacturers' engines.
3) Norton has borrowed technology from Wankel and Rotax.
4) Toyota now use a BMW engine in the Supra.
5) Corvette ZR-1 (LT5) engine was designed by Lotus.
6) Mercedes have used Renault engines.
7) Alfa Romeo and Maserati have used Ferrari engines.
8) Aston-Martin and Pagani have used Mercedes-AMG engine.

At one point I was a purist on the matter as well, but have come to realize that global competition have moved us to a new world of outsourcing not just simple parts, but also critical components.
I’m aware of all of that. The point is, it’s Kawasaki. I’d much rather it be a British brand and not Japanese. I know. I sound bad.
 
I’m aware of all of that. The point is, it’s Kawasaki. I’d much rather it be a British brand and not Japanese. I know. I sound bad.
Brit chassis. Brit engine. Sorted…

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This debate can never come to a conclusion as, to state the obvious, everyone is looking for something different. As a British rider I have a nostalgia for a traditionally British bike cos that's what I grew up with and that's what Dad rode and at one time British bikes were the best in the world on the road and track. So owning a Norton still pleases this subconsciously held fact for me. Wearing my Godtop jacket and Lewis Leathers boots hooks into a desire for the time when life was so much simpler and the future held so much promise.
Customers from other countries will want to buy a British bike because of a desire to buy into the British image and may actually be more demanding that the product is as British as it can be. Interestingly I haven't heard anyone on the forum complain that Norton are using Ohlin suspension instead of a British manufacturer so there is a degree of 'It must be British yet I can accept some compromises'.

If you are buying a 961/Commando then you are buying into an image of a British tradition and it's down to how deep you want to go :- Is the name enough like the AJS badge on the pretty little Chinese café racers or the French built Brough Superior or my Indian built Harley Davidson? Are you happy with a bought-in engine assembled into a British built frame? There is also a degree of, dare I say, bias against certain countries so a 'precision engineered' German engine might be acceptable yet a 'cheap mass produced' engine from the Japanese (who killed our industry) not so. We know that any country is capable of building a quality power unit but again what we're buying into is an image with Norton.

Stuck record time - I draw a parallel with Morgan Sportscars who tried to update their design but their customers overseas wanted a traditional look but were happy to have a BMW/ S&S powerplant as it gave reliability and performance.

So based on the above my gut feeling is that if we could build a traditional looking Commando in Britain using a traditional looking engine from, say, Germany which gave us really excellent performance and reliability then that would satisfy most buyers.

FYI

From my conversations with Norton a few 961 owners were consulted on their experiences with the bike. They then got a third party company to test bikes on the road and track and confirmed the issues which had been raised were true. Unlike the previous regime they admit that there are definitely issues like the rocker bushing and fraying throttle cables which they are fixing. For the latter updated throttle bodies are being produced. A batch of 961s which were built using existing parts were not released and have been standing in the factory until the quality issues have been addressed. Many people have told me that I'm gullible so I suppose I must be but really think New Norton are going in the right direction.
 
This debate can never come to a conclusion as, to state the obvious, everyone is looking for something different. As a British rider I have a nostalgia for a traditionally British bike cos that's what I grew up with and that's what Dad rode and at one time British bikes were the best in the world on the road and track. So owning a Norton still pleases this subconsciously held fact for me. Wearing my Godtop jacket and Lewis Leathers boots hooks into a desire for the time when life was so much simpler and the future held so much promise.
Customers from other countries will want to buy a British bike because of a desire to buy into the British image and may actually be more demanding that the product is as British as it can be. Interestingly I haven't heard anyone on the forum complain that Norton are using Ohlin suspension instead of a British manufacturer so there is a degree of 'It must be British yet I can accept some compromises'.

If you are buying a 961/Commando then you are buying into an image of a British tradition and it's down to how deep you want to go :- Is the name enough like the AJS badge on the pretty little Chinese café racers or the French built Brough Superior or my Indian built Harley Davidson? Are you happy with a bought-in engine assembled into a British built frame? There is also a degree of, dare I say, bias against certain countries so a 'precision engineered' German engine might be acceptable yet a 'cheap mass produced' engine from the Japanese (who killed our industry) not so. We know that any country is capable of building a quality power unit but again what we're buying into is an image with Norton.

Stuck record time - I draw a parallel with Morgan Sportscars who tried to update their design but their customers overseas wanted a traditional look but were happy to have a BMW/ S&S powerplant as it gave reliability and performance.

So based on the above my gut feeling is that if we could build a traditional looking Commando in Britain using a traditional looking engine from, say, Germany which gave us really excellent performance and reliability then that would satisfy most buyers.

FYI

From my conversations with Norton a few 961 owners were consulted on their experiences with the bike. They then got a third party company to test bikes on the road and track and confirmed the issues which had been raised were true. Unlike the previous regime they admit that there are definitely issues like the rocker bushing and fraying throttle cables which they are fixing. For the latter updated throttle bodies are being produced. A batch of 961s which were built using existing parts were not released and have been standing in the factory until the quality issues have been addressed. Many people have told me that I'm gullible so I suppose I must be but really think New Norton are going in the right direction.
what he said :p:cool:

Like it or not, sourcing, designing, manufacturing has gone global. If you want something 100% British designed and manufactured, then are you willing to pay 2x, 3x more? vs a comparable bike? I'm happy to buy British when I can, but accept that something like best of breed components...Ohlins, Brembo for example, make good sense from a pricing and quality perspective. Triumph are designed in the UK, but built in Thialand these days (I have one of the last brit built Speed Triples :cool: ). I get it makes economic sense, but part of me still wishes they were uk made, but have to accept the realities of the global economy and the financial drivers that are needed to keep a company viable.

Yep, for Norton, I have bought into the image/tradition and I like that. I'll take what I can get, even though from a British purity perspective, it can be seen as flawed, but I can live with that!
 
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