My New Café Racer MKII

cliffa · Apr 30, 2021

Whoaaa that is rich !!

Have you tried a Multi meter connected to the head sensor and testing like this..

Not sure what the exact readings should be, but at least you could see if it's reacting to temperature change.

You are correct on the Bosch replacement, but TonyA also recommends the Honeywell Head temp sensor 150 C max rating (7mm probe tip diameter) : ES120-0030

More details here...

Bosch

I know this has been talked about before but I cannot seem to find it anywhere. Id like to replace all the sensors and injectors on my Norton’s to Bosch. Where can I find all the part numbers needed? It would be great if these were all available as a kit form that included every sensor on the...

www.accessnorton.com

Hope that helps.

cliffa.

cliffa · Apr 30, 2021

Are both plugs the same?

Gazz · Apr 30, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
That plug looks terrible ! As you say, that bike is running very, very rich.

Fingers crossed the factory decide that covid is no longer an excuse to be closed... soon !

It does, probably why I am not getting throttle response, bogging out... Not sure why Covid stops them answering the phone, maybe they are really short staffed with a high workload...

Gazz · Apr 30, 2021

cliffa said:
Are both plugs the same?

Thanks for the info and link Cliffa, i will test it with the multimeter tomorrow, see what results I get. I am hoping it is dead, that would explain the mixture.... Yes, both plugs are the same...

TonyA · Apr 30, 2021

Gazz said:
Hi guys,

Thought I’d give you an update, I’ve change the plugs to iridium as a first step to trying to get my bike running reasonably. I ordered a pair from my local bike shop here in Clevedon. I picked them up and fitted them today. Straight away I noticed a difference, much better throttle response especially when it was cold, revved more cleanly. However when it warmed up the engine still died when I opened the throttle quickly anywhere between 2-4k. If I was very very gentle it did pick up.

I also took a look at the head temperature sensor as my bike appears to be running very rich indeed. I noticed that the black plastic connection was a bit wobbly , it isn’t a Bosch or a Honeywell, I’m going to replace it. It has a 17.5mm probe length and a diameter of 7.5mm am I correct in saying you guys replace it with a Bosh 0280130026?

Claudio, I have yet tried to exclude the idle control valve, simple job?

Here are some photos, temp sensor, plugs and exhausts after 15 miles.

I also took my bike back to my local bike shop because they said that they woukd try and communicate with the ECU, Omex 2017 MK2. They had it for 55 mins trying to establish a link with one of a number of devices they have. Unfortunately they were unable to do this, they said it was the first bike that they had in which they couldn't talk to, that includes new Triumphs, BMWs and Ducatis.

500 miles soon so hopefully there will be a trip to the factory for its first service but they aren't answering the phone or reply to my contact request....

2 K ohms at 25C (77F) degrees , and NTC (negative temperature coefficient) so resistance goes down when tip get warmer. You can test it if you want to or just replace it. Yes Bosch or Honeywell . Just put an ohm meter on the connection ,warm it up a bit. and watch the reading. Don't forget the air box temp sensor also can be checked this way. Is there any dealer still able to work on OMEX for Norton left ?

Fast Eddie · May 1, 2021

TonyA said:
Is there any dealer still able to work on OMEX for Norton left ?

Maybe Krazy Horse?

There are not many dealers left who work with Norton full stop sadly. Garner did a fabulous job of burning bridges ...

Selling direct to customers and then telling them to go to their local dealer for warranty work, who most likely wasn’t gonna get paid for it. That was one story I heard from a dealer who gave them up.

The new boys have got some trust building to do... when they get around to opening !

Vernon240 · May 1, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
Maybe Krazy Horse?

There are not many dealers left who work with Norton full stop sadly. Garner did a fabulous job of burning bridges ...

Selling direct to customers and then telling them to go to their local dealer for warranty work, who most likely wasn’t gonna get paid for it. That was one story I heard from a dealer who gave them up.

The new boys have got some trust building to do... when they get around to opening !

The ‘closed ‘cause Covid’ is wearing a bit thin. Come June 21st they will need a new excuse!

Fast Eddie · May 1, 2021

Vernon240 said:
The ‘closed ‘cause Covid’ is wearing a bit thin. Come June 21st they will need a new excuse!

They already need one mate. Vehicle manufacturers and parts suppliers haven’t been closed cos of covid for bleedin’ yonks !

Gazz · May 2, 2021

I hope they open soon, my 500 miles will be up and I'll need the 1st service. I think Thor Motorcycles in Bodmin are still servicing and selling Nortons so they should be able to work on Omex.

Cliffa, I tested my sensor...

2°C = 5.19 k ohms
18°C = 3.34
75°C = 0.33
80°C = 0.25

It responded to temperature changes and in the correct way but they actual readings ‍

I'm inclined to think it's actually ok, which is very disappointing.

I ordered a Bosch replacement, should come this week. Both the Honeywell items , air and head aren't available in the UK (unless anyone knows differently). Looks like online components bought up the last of the stock..

Hope to take her out today, lovely riding day here in the UK

Al's#5 · May 2, 2021

Gazz said:
I hope they open soon, my 500 miles will be up and I'll need the 1st service. I think Thor Motorcycles in Bodmin are still servicing and selling Nortons so they should be able to work on Omex.

Cliffa, I tested my sensor...

2°C = 5.19 k ohms
18°C = 3.34
75°C = 0.33
80°C = 0.25

It responded to temperature changes and in the correct way but they actual readings ‍ I'm inclined to think it's actually ok, which is very disappointing.

I ordered a Bosch replacement, should come this week. Both the Honeywell items , air and head aren't available in the UK (unless anyone knows differently). Looks like online components bought up the last of the stock..

Hope to take her out today, lovely riding day here in the UK

Just back from a weekend blast on mine, wanted to test it out in the rain, no problems! Fast road over Fylingdales, Whitby to Pickering, back home the Blakey Ridge road in the dry. Can't fault her! Kept in the 4 to 6K range she runs, handles and pleases the aural requirements nicely with the DIY silencer mods. Getting used to the clattering when pottering, might try a 75W90 in the transmission.

Fast Eddie · May 2, 2021

Al's#5 said:
Just back from a weekend blast on mine, wanted to test it out in the rain, no problems! Fast road over Fylingdales, Whitby to Pickering, back home the Blakey Ridge road in the dry. Can't fault her! Kept in the 4 to 6K range she runs, handles and pleases the aural requirements nicely with the DIY silencer mods. Getting used to the clattering when pottering, might try a 75W90 in the transmission.

Don’t forget the transmission oil is shared by the primary, and therefore the clutch, which I doubt will respond well to ole fashioned EP gear oil!

I’d highly recommend this stuff, I use it in all my boxes:

TonyA · May 2, 2021

Hello , iwilson posted this chart some time back :

Head Temperature Sensor Norton 961

Found a chart that shows what the correct values should be for a given temperature. Fits in nicely with what I measured, should be useful for anyone trying to fault find.

T [°C] R [Ω]

-40 45313

-30 26114

-20 15462

-10 9397

0 5896

10 3792

20 2500

30 1707

40 1175

50 834

60 596

70 436

80 323

90 243

100 187

110 144

120 113

130 89

Al's#5 · May 2, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
Don’t forget the transmission oil is shared by the primary, and therefore the clutch, which I doubt will respond well to ole fashioned EP gear oil!

I’d highly recommend this stuff, I use it in all my boxes:

View attachment 79522

I Plumbed for 75W90 in my Sportster and it seems to do the trick.

Fast Eddie · May 2, 2021

Al's#5 said:
I Plumbed for 75W90 in my Sportster and it seems to do the trick.

Well I’d personally ensure that whatever I used was suitable for a wet clutch...

Al's#5 · May 2, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
Well I’d personally ensure that whatever I used was suitable for a wet clutch...

Noted!
The Harley TRIAL was from reading an HD forum, so far so good. I think the G rating is relevant, 75W90 gearbox oil being viscosity equivalent to 20W50 engine oil? I note that TonyA is using 20W50.

cliffa · May 2, 2021

Meanwhile back at the original subject....

Gazz, as the head temp sensor checks out ok (shame as that would have been a simple fix), I guess the next things to check are the wiring continuity & connectors from it to the ECU, then check the throttle position sensor and associated wiring & connectors.

TonyA · May 2, 2021

Al's#5 said:
Noted!
The Harley TRIAL was from reading an HD forum, so far so good. I think the G rating is relevant, 75W90 gearbox oil being viscosity equivalent to 20W50 engine oil? I note that TonyA is using 20W50.

Thats right , But don't use EP (extreme pressure) gear lube. You know the stuff that smells like sulfur - Don't use GL4/5 EP anything in there.

Gazz · May 3, 2021

TonyA said:
Hello , iwilson posted this chart some time back :

Head Temperature Sensor Norton 961

Found a chart that shows what the correct values should be for a given temperature. Fits in nicely with what I measured, should be useful for anyone trying to fault find.

T [°C] R [Ω]

-40 45313

-30 26114

-20 15462

-10 9397

0 5896

10 3792

20 2500

30 1707

40 1175

50 834

60 596

70 436

80 323

90 243

100 187

110 144

120 113

130 89

Thanks for taking the time to find that, mines not exact but close, I'll fit the new one in when it arrives..

Gazz · May 3, 2021

cliffa said:
Meanwhile back at the original subject....

Gazz, as the head temp sensor checks out ok (shame as that would have been a simple fix), I guess the next things to check are the wiring continuity & connectors from it to the ECU, then check the throttle position sensor and associated wiring & connectors.

Looks that way doesn't it ... I have a manual with a wiring diagram but I think it might be older with a different ECU, was there more than one service manual produced?

Took her out for a 90 mile trip to S.Wales again on Sunday, the roads were less busy and I was able to keep the revs up to 4 - 4.5k, she's a lot happier there but still bogging when I open the throttle, have to be very careful when overtaking. Haven't checked the plugs out yet ..
I absolutely loved how she handled and braked, not tweaked the suspension yet but needs to be softer for my liking, I'll follow some of the advice for the guys.
here..

465 miles now ... Hope the factory opens shortly

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF · May 3, 2021

When I got my 2016 Mk2 bike , I rode it 200 miles home & was surprised by the flat spot/no power/no response/ bit like a 2 stroke that had the wrong jets in , it was ok above 35/40 mph , However after the 500 mile service when the decat pipe was fitted along with the short stubbiest the bike woke up & came alive , so don’t got too deep atm changing & adjusting too many things , before & after here

My New Café Racer MKII

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