magneto inspection with modified cover

maaseyracer · Oct 25, 2023

jamesp said:
Thank you to everyone who responded to my question regarding JH magnetos and spark advance. I think I understand what you are saying about the spark advance. I can see that their is real passion out there for them. It also looks like you can get by without an electric starter if you have a decent leg.

The advance/retard lever is useful on a Triumph timed at 37 to 39 degrees of total advance. A Norton at 28 to 30 is much easier to kick. I would still probably get an advance retard lever for a Hunt mag, but I am not a big guy.

ashman · Oct 25, 2023

maaseyracer said:
The advance/retard lever is useful on a Triumph timed at 37 to 39 degrees of total advance. A Norton at 28 to 30 is much easier to kick. I would still probably get an advance retard lever for a Hunt mag, but I am not a big guy.

I have chicken legs and I can still kick my Norton too life, the JH make it so much easier and the longer RGM T160 kicker helps as well having tuned carbs, my 81 Triumph Thunderbird was a lot easier to kick over than my high compression Norton, but its not the size that counts, its the knack of the kick that get it right, knowing the Norton kick knack is the trick and I been doing it for 47+ years with points, EIs and now the JH which has been the best by far of all of them for ease of kicking the Norton to life and that big spark makes it run so well.

jamesp · Oct 25, 2023

“that big spark makes it run so well.” That could be enough incentive right there even if you have an electric start. Maybe the best of both worlds.

ashman · Oct 25, 2023

jamesp said:
“that big spark makes it run so well.” That could be enough incentive right there even if you have an electric start. Maybe the best of both worlds.

I am sure a JH and a ES would be the ducks nuts for firing up, but my Norton is a light weight and the thought of putting an ES on it and a heavy battery to kick it over would effect the way I built my hotrod Norton, but at close too $6K au, no thanks when my Norton only takes one kick to fire up and cost me nothing to kick, + I am a tight arse when it comes to spending my hard earned money and being retired now makes things even harder, I am not a rich person and I spend my play money wisely and so far a ES kit is just not on the cards at all when I can still kick, its a dying art form kicking a bike to life these days.
In fact a mate and myself are thinking about arranging a kick start bike run next year, KS bikes only and have a bit of a laugh about the idea, my mate said we might be the only bikes there lol.

Ashley

jamesp · Oct 25, 2023

ashman said:
I am sure a JH and a ES would be the ducks nuts for firing up, but my Norton is a light weight and the thought of putting an ES on it and a heavy battery to kick it over would effect the way I built my hotrod Norton, but at close too $6K au, no thanks when my Norton only takes one kick to fire up and cost me nothing to kick, + I am a tight arse when it comes to spending my hard earned money and being retired now makes things even harder, I am not a rich person and I spend my play money wisely and so far a ES kit is just not on the cards at all when I can still kick, its a dying art form kicking a bike to life these days.
In fact a mate and myself are thinking about arranging a kick start bike run next year, KS bikes only and have a bit of a laugh about the idea, my mate said we might be the only bikes there lol.

Ashley

There are good sized Norton clubs in Northern and Southern California, also in Oregon. Maybe you could start up an international event with organized tour and travel from the west coast of America. I think some would love to see your country and would come if the logistics were made simple.

maaseyracer · Oct 27, 2023

ashman said:
I have chicken legs and I can still kick my Norton too life, the JH make it so much easier and the longer RGM T160 kicker helps as well having tuned carbs, my 81 Triumph Thunderbird was a lot easier to kick over than my high compression Norton, but its not the size that counts, its the knack of the kick that get it right, knowing the Norton kick knack is the trick and I been doing it for 47+ years with points, EIs and now the JH which has been the best by far of all of them for ease of kicking the Norton to life and that big spark makes it run so well.

What is the compression on your Norton? At 10.25:1 kicking was a real challenge, I have a 75 electric start so I did not care as much, but I ended up going down to ~ 9.5:1 to try and save the starter. Though I do think my JS2 cam would respond better with more compression, and part of me wants to go back to it.

That all said when it comes to EI the biggest starting issue is the coil resistance, and the advance. A 3 ohm coil makes a big difference for EI. The hunt uses a 0.5 ohm coil and is hotter, however it takes close to idle RPM for the spark to be as big as what an electronic ignition with a proper coil can deliver first go. That all said, I do prefer the simplicity and the lack of battery from the hunt. One of the other disadvantages to the mag is the points degrade much faster than in a traditional points ignition. Changing the points over to a low voltage switch would be a good cure for that.

ashman · Oct 27, 2023

maaseyracer said:
What is the compression on your Norton? At 10.25:1 kicking was a real challenge, I have a 75 electric start so I did not care as much, but I ended up going down to ~ 9.5:1 to try and save the starter. Though I do think my JS2 cam would respond better with more compression, and part of me wants to go back to it.

That all said when it comes to EI the biggest starting issue is the coil resistance, and the advance. A 3 ohm coil makes a big difference for EI. The hunt uses a 0.5 ohm coil and is hotter, however it takes close to idle RPM for the spark to be as big as what an electronic ignition with a proper coil can deliver first go. That all said, I do prefer the simplicity and the lack of battery from the hunt. One of the other disadvantages to the mag is the points degrade much faster than in a traditional points ignition. Changing the points over to a low voltage switch would be a good cure for that.

I don't know what you mean about the point's on the JH maggie degrade faster than traditional points ignition, as when my Norton was new with stock points ignition, I had more problem with running points than anything else as well a worn out auto advance unit, I also had 3 EIs, one Lucas (failed in 12months) I Boyar (failed week after the big fire of 82 and 100 miles from home) and the replacement Boyar (lasted over 30 years and was still going when I installed the JH), the JH has been on the Norton for 13+ years now and so far still running the points that came with it, every oil change I pull the front cover off the JH to inspect the points and so far they are good and have only used a little dab of metho to clean then but that was only once and a few drops of STP on the points arm felt for lube, I have well over 35k miles on the JH.
So if my JH points degraded faster than traditional points ignition??? I don't think so as the bike is running perfect, starts first kick every time and just gets up and go without any misfire or hesitation at all, so I leave it well alone when its running great.
This is my second bike with running a JH maggie and both have proven themselves to me that they work great and produce that lovely big spark and are so reliable, the Norton has run the best it ever has in the 47+ years I have owned it and most of its life was an everyday runner.
When something works so well, is simple and no need for a big heavy battery for starting I will always support it and tell it how good it is, and I been reporting it here for over 13 years now and even put up a short video of the first start up when I installed it and after the motor was rebuilt, it fired up first kick on static timing and new PWK carbs not tuned in, amazing, blew my mine as well my mate Paul who also runs a older JH on his 650 Triumph bobber (for 20 years now).

Ashley

maaseyracer · Oct 27, 2023

ashman said:
I don't know what you mean about the point's on the JH maggie degrade faster than traditional points ignition, as when my Norton was new with stock points ignition, I had more problem with running points than anything else as well a worn out auto advance unit, I also had 3 EIs, one Lucas (failed in 12months) I Boyar (failed week after the big fire of 82 and 100 miles from home) and the replacement Boyar (lasted over 30 years and was still going when I installed the JH), the JH has been on the Norton for 13+ years now and so far still running the points that came with it, every oil change I pull the front cover off the JH to inspect the points and so far they are good and have only used a little dab of metho to clean then but that was only once and a few drops of STP on the points arm felt for lube, I have well over 35k miles on the JH.
So if my JH points degraded faster than traditional points ignition??? I don't think so as the bike is running perfect, starts first kick every time and just gets up and go without any misfire or hesitation at all, so I leave it well alone when its running great.
This is my second bike with running a JH maggie and both have proven themselves to me that they work great and produce that lovely big spark and are so reliable, the Norton has run the best it ever has in the 47+ years I have owned it and most of its life was an everyday runner.
When something works so well, is simple and no need for a big heavy battery for starting I will always support it and tell it how good it is, and I been reporting it here for over 13 years now and even put up a short video of the first start up when I installed it and after the motor was rebuilt, it fired up first kick on static timing and new PWK carbs not tuned in, amazing, blew my mine as well my mate Paul who also runs a older JH on his 650 Triumph bobber (for 20 years now).

Ashley

Points are switching higher voltage through the hunt, that will wear those points faster. Are the Hunt points a better geometry and less prone to walking out of time or alignment than the Lucas, yes. They are a superior system when it comes to points.

A mag with transistor switching would be a better as it would make the points a low voltage switch, but that would require a battery, and EI is a better option when it comes to needing a battery. EI should be reliable whether it is reluctor wheels or hall effect sensors there are so many ways to make EI a great option. However, the available options are seem stuck on wasted spark, poor dwell, and full advance so high up in the rev range you mid range disappears.

That all said I do agree about the simplicity of a Hunt style mag.

magneto inspection with modified cover

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