Kicking back problems with my 72 Roadster

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Thomasdunstall said:
What to do if checking the curve is not on 31 at 5000rpms? How to set proper timing than?
Do I have to move the plate anticlock a degree or two and check?
If set on 31 BTDC, retarding 1 degree I set it to 32? Am I right?

Yes, simply adjust the position of the Boyer stator plate so that the timing mark does not go over 31 BTDC at (or above) 5000 RPM.
 
L.A.B. said:
Thomasdunstall said:
What to do if checking the curve is not on 31 at 5000rpms? How to set proper timing than?
Do I have to move the plate anticlock a degree or two and check?
If set on 31 BTDC, retarding 1 degree I set it to 32? Am I right?

Yes, simply adjust the position of the Boyer stator plate so that the timing mark does not go over 31 BTDC at (or above) 5000 RPM.

Ok perfect! Many thanks Les
 
Thomasdunstall said:
I will also check for eventual crossed connection between the Boyer box and the Boyer stator plate

If the wires did happen to be crossed, then theoretically, it should at least shift the timing far enough out at the standard setting so the engine wouldn't start at all, but it could be worth double-checking just to make sure, even though I think perhaps we now know the actual cause of the problem (set over-advanced).
 
L.A.B. said:
Thomasdunstall said:
I will also check for eventual crossed connection between the Boyer box and the Boyer stator plate

If the wires did happen to be crossed, then theoretically, it should at least shift the timing far enough out at the standard setting so the engine wouldn't start at all, but it could be worth double-checking just to make sure, even though I think perhaps we now know the actual cause of the problem (set over-advanced).

Right thanks Les
 
Hi,
Has the Pazon the same problems?.
I setted my Pazon to 31 degree and i have no problems.
Ciao.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Has the Pazon the same problems?

Which problems?

The problems experienced by Mario may only be due to the fact that the installer of the electronic ignition has not followed the manufacturer's instructions, as it is not possible to set the Boyer accurately by doing it statically, no matter how carefully that is done it should still be strobed, as it might be dead-on or it could be 10 degrees out. Every 1 degree of error at the Boyer stator will result in 2 degrees of error at the crankshaft.


pierodn said:
I setted my Pazon to 31 degree and i have no problems.

Did you check it with a strobe (as the Pazon instructions also say you must do)?

Presumably you did strobe it, but if you did not, then although you haven't experienced any starting problems, the ignition timing may still not be set absolutely dead-on.
 
Hi Les,
I didnt strobe it, I dont have this tool.
I setted only statically but the bike seems to run very well.
I understood, i need to buy the strobe tool, is better with digital display (it costs a lot) or a normal strobe is almost good?
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
I didnt strobe it, i setted only statically but the bike runs very well.

You could have been lucky and set it reasonably close to dead-on or even dead-on, and I know some people are capable of setting ignition timing by 'feel' or 'by ear' but I guess the majority can't do that, so for most of us, doing the final setting with a strobe as the EI manufacturers such as Boyer, Pazon etc. usually recommend in their instructions is the best way to do it.
 
Hi Les,
I mean, i will strobe but i need to buy this tool before.

Is better to buy the strobe with digital display (it costs a lot) or a normal tool is almost good?
Ciao
Piero
 
You don't NEED a timing/strobe light, I do Hobot method of hand moving plate until all kickbacks JUSTstop occuring then tighten down the plate, So easy really. :|
 
pierodn said:
I understood, i need to buy the strobe tool, is better with digital display (it costs a lot) or a normal strobe is almost good?

No, you don't really need any kind of strobe with a digital display.

I know some strobes have an advance degree setting but that isn't required for checking a Commando as that is done using a 'full advance' mark, so any strobe with a built-in advance degrees feature needs to be set to zero '0'.
 
Is better to buy the strobe with digital display (it costs a lot) or a normal tool is almost good?
Ciao
Piero

Pierro, no, you do not need an expensive digital strobe light

just buy or borrow from a friend or a shop a regular cheap one
 
Torontonian said:
You don't NEED a timing/strobe light, I do Hobot method of hand moving plate until all kickbacks JUSTstop occuring then tighten down the plate, So easy really. :|

It amazes me how people want to complicate things that are often solved in simple ways.
Not saying everything is always solved simply, but jeez....

My brother fancies himself tech savvy. Yesterday the told me his GPS was going crazy and directed him off the freeway to spend spend 1.4 days to go 50 miles from his origin to destination.
I said "is it set on 'hiking' mode'? "Oh hell, I never thought of that!" says he.
 
I have a Boyer and the timing is spot on. It kicks back sometimes. Trick is to get all your body weight behind it and don't give it a chance to do it. Basically you've got to man up a bit and take the rough with the smooth. :D
 
I have one more question please

the engine has been fully rebuilt and has 0 miles on the clock...
do you think is wise to rev till 5.000 rpms in order to set the timing?
The engine is new and I'm a bit reluctant to rev till 5.000
What do you think?
 
A new engine should be rev'd up over 2000 to break in cam/lifters and if it has delay to easy rise to 5000 then something is very wrong inside the engine, the timing or the mixture. If there is some danger in your engine to take it almost right away to 5000 rpm then better find out sooner than later. In down dirty practice ya just rev up over 5000 long enough to see the what full adv is set too. Smarter-skilled mechanics may be able to look at time curve graph and pick a rpm below full adv and try to hold that rpm well enough to see the wavering degree mark below full adv to figure out if in fact at higher on road rpm it doesn't go to advantaged. Every reference ya can find and has been shown here the more ya treat your new engine like a new tender baby the more likely it is not to break in well for long term wear or performance, short of WOT unloaded past red line duh.
 
In your first post you said you'd already had the engine running so I wouldn't worry too much about revving it to 5000 RPM in short bursts, just get the engine warmed up first.
It's easier if you have someone there to help, as one person can operate the throttle and watch the revcounter (and also hold the bike steady) whilst the other person uses the strobe. Each engine run-up should only take a few seconds, after which, the engine can be slowed to idle speed, or stopped, and any necessary adjustments made to the Boyer stator, then repeat the procedure until the timing is set correctly.

It isn't necessary set the engine at exactly 5000 RPM to do the check, just make sure the timing has stopped advancing (you will see this under the strobe light) and does not exceed 31 degrees at, or just above, 5000 RPM.
 
I will help Mario to strobe.
My hands are free (excluding the BSA R3 clutch that is making me suffer!!!!!).
Ciao
Piero
 
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