ID of 3/8 oil supply hose on Commando

About as fail safe as one can make it.

As a shade tree more lazy than smart - toss the key and make the valve its own electrical switch as nicely done above or off the shelf offering and make the handle the key with a pin/cord to trap in use. Who but one of us would even see if for what it was to start it to steal it so if ya left the real ignition switch in w/o the hot wires then it really fool em even if thrown in a pu truck to take silently.

Ive got some bits coming next week and a good idea of how to make the handle and lock. Will make one assembly up when the stuff gets here. Might offer them for sale if they work well and there is interest.

Glen

When I put my valve on my oil line I am going to put a laylad, the one you have on outboard motors that you put around your arm incase you fall overboard and it pulls out and kills the motor, I am going to connect it to the valve when closed and the other end to the trottle grip, only needs to be turned off when sitting for a week or more, as well the laylad is bright red so be hard to miss.

Ashley

To me that is a safety of sorts but not a failsafe. For example, when the bike is parked somewhere, someone could fiddle with the lever and turn the valve off without you ever knowing about it until the engine comes to a shuddering halt.

Glen

Its never out of my sight when I am out on it, a key switch is no good on my bike I run a Joe Hunt maggie and no battery just the earth wire to a toggle switch from the maggie and that another reason I don't leave my Norton out of sight when out on it.

Ashley

I think hobot nailed it. Use a combination oil valve and switch that makes/breaks the ignition circuit. When you turn it off you confirm things are working properly with the engine and lights going out; when you turn it on you confirm things are working properly with indicator lights illuminating.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

I think hobot nailed it. Use a combination oil valve and switch that makes/breaks the ignition circuit. When you turn it off you confirm things are working properly with the engine and lights going out; when you turn it on you confirm things are working properly with indicator lights illuminating.

Click to expand...

Well, I thought that's pretty much what the IronJohns, and several of the people have done here with made in place switches or my micro-switch. I don't know how Jay Leno did his, but he added a warning beeper like others have done too.

Dave
69S

I believe he is talking about making the factory ignition switch inoperable in favour of the valve switch. I would not want to use the valve and switch as the main on/ off ignition switch, that seems awkward.
It strikes me that it is better to continue to leave the stock ignition switch and all wiring untouched but still add this valve in such a way that it the bike is inoperable without opening it before starting. Then the valve can be used as seen fit, not every time the bike is started and stopped as Steve suggested.
For my mk3 this might mean using it once per year as that bike stays fine if ridden even just once per month. So it would get shut off before winter storage. I would be inclined to turn it back on again a couple of weeks before the first Spring ride just to let some extra oil into the sump.
For the 650ss the valve might get used a dozen or so times each season. It needs to be ridden about once per week to keep most of the oil in the tank.

Glen

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Actually to steve-hobot this wet sump worry is for old ladies and its wasted effort for little to no benefit and may even be detrimental If in fact the cam does get enough initial wet sump splash oiling for some wear protection. Key switch is a wear prone item giving trouble way more often than reports of wet sump damage, which so far only a handful of blown cranks seals reported as worse that happened plus trouble staring with about frozen gelled thick oil conditions. I've lost fear that anyone would mess with a parked cycle even with key left in it and eliminated key switch in Peel for fancy flip cap toggle.

I'm considering a sight glass and maybe a port for a camera probe to see what's going on oil wise inside to decide what the best long term path is. Btw those that have an oil PSI guage - could ya report here how long it takes to see needle jump up on initial over night cold am starts?

I guess it really reverts back to what I had suggested above. The oil valve/switch acts as a master power or ignition switch. I did not suggest abandoning the factory key/ignition switch; use the factory key ignition as usual. Forget to turn off the oil - no big foul. Forget to turn on the oil - cannot start the bike. Pretty simple.

Two failure modes:

Oil on but switch stuck open - simply bridge wires in the field to get home and fix.
Oil off but switch stuck closed AND forget to turn on oil - could bodge an engine. Should be easy diagnostics by turning key ignition on before opening valve - circuit should remain dead when oil is off. Maybe an indicator diode would not be a bad idea.

One challenge for the above is finding a suitable switch that can stand the elements and the vibration.

Again, if I understand it correctly, Glen's proposal seems to be most rigorous but in my opinion, difficult to achieve (finding a suitable keyed valve that could also be removed and used as an ignition key). We shall see what he comes up with.

I got a valve from John Ep of Canada (there are pictures an details on this site somewhere) it has a witch which I have connected to kill switch then a fused relay that feeds Boyer straight from battery so if you don't switch oil on or press kill no sparks
so far it all works fine an if the relay or either switch fail I carry a short length of wire with a male terminal at each end so can just take L/H side panel off pull relay off its mount an plug wire in an ride away.

This short video has been posted before. It is absolutely impossible for the bike to start unless the oil valve is switched to the on position. Even if the buzzer fails the circuit is wired in such a way that battery to the starting circuit still has to go through the contacts on the oil valve. If the valve is closed no battery.
You can hear the buzzer when I turn on the ignition key then shut off when I open the oil valve.


Art

Here is my high tech fail safe way to remember to turn the oil valve on. :roll: I did check the return flow to the tank and it is pumping right away so the flow looks good.




Marc

I'm sorry Marc but that solution makes me chuckle out loud a bit looking at the extra cordage and then the hassle hazards of storing it along with you. Yet its similar to what I'll be using on Ms Peel but as kill cord that needs to be plugged into me to run as Peel's gas valve handle sticks out in the way to kick or put leg on peg if closed. So much as I'm humored on your solution, ugh I'll likely store the end of Peel kill cord like you show for exactly same chuckle at me on what this hobby directs me to do too. I've thot about how to fix up a pressurized pre-oiler for just right wet sump depth. If a switch in valve I'd make the whole battery to bike flow through it and jump or eliminate the key switch to always full on and put the fuse inline. Could just leave key in permanent on to avoid that wear factor as lazy factory looking way.

I've got the key in valve one working, just waiting for stainless barb fittings to get here, then it will be complete. It is a really simple setup, the key is bolted to a removeable al.. lever/key fob which slips on to the valve in order to shut it off. With the valve off or even partially off, the lever cannot be removed. I have a variety of valves here and finally settled on one which is a full. 375" thru, slightly larger than the hose which is .350". Also trying to source some nice stainless mini clamps made by ABA of Sweden. Some of the Marine supplies carry them.


I need to test the valve by attempting to start the bike with a fully addled mind. My wife has offered to stage a nasty row in order to throw me off, or, if needed, shoot me in the arm prior to attempting to start the bike with the valve off. It shouldn't matter, but for the sake of engine safety it may be necessary to do the extreme testing.

Glen