How high does the road holder fork compress?

When zip ties are put around front forks, it is usually to see how much suspension travel is being used - not how much travel remains to be used. I agree with Matt Spencer, a couple of inches is normal. When I accelerate hard on my Seeley, the rear probably compresses about one inch, and that is enough to make the bike start to oversteer in the correct direction. If your front is too soft, you get more travel and the rake on the steering head reduces when you brake - the bike will usually become more stable and understeer. That is the reason you mightbeed to counter-steer to get the bike to tip into the corners.
 
acotrel said:
the rake on the steering head reduces when you brake - the bike will usually become more stable
Click to expand...

I often wonder why you post this kind of thing when you get it wrong nearly every time. There's literally only 2 possibilities, so you have a 50% chance of getting it right. So,... just to help you out,..

When you load the front brake the fork rake angle steepens slightly, so the trail is also reduced which makes the bike LESS stable. It's a pretty simple concept "STABLE bikes want to go STRAIGHT" Think about how much trail a chopper has (a lot) and pretty much the only thing they do well is go straight...

Then, think about motoGP bikes and how steep the rake on those bikes are, and how little trail they have. I bet every one of them has a steering damper to help stabilize them. They are designed with minimum trail to be nimble, not with a lot of trail to be stable.

It's kind of ironic that a guy who was a "racer" doesn't know the basics of fork geometry, but I suppose we all learn from people we respect and sometimes they teach us their mistakes which we continue to believe and repeat as true....
 
My 1972 roadholders are on the bike with no internals just the sliders and fork travel is 6 1/4 inches. I’m fitting lansdown dampers and just crawling out of the rabbit hole been a 3 weeks of work getting it right with the stock bronze and steel bushes. They were no where near fitting with OD or ID.
 
Just in case someone reading this is running the old non-angled interstate pipes and mufflers (I've seen such in the Pictures thread) be advised that if you soften up the ride with progressive or other more compliant springs front and rear, or even one or the other, you will run out of lean angle way too soon. You can only lean until the mufflers drag.

On a weekend club trip, in such a situation on a tight, blind, right-hand bend, I drifted into the oncoming lane with sparks flying off the silencer. Round the bend comes a motor home. Only the presence of mind to lean off way more than ever before saved the day. The other alternative was the guard rail at the edge of the view point pull-out. I'll never forget it. I think about it every time I travel that road, about once a month.

On Monday the bike got a new set of roadster pipes and peashooters.
 
Z
Thomasa said:
Just in case someone reading this is running the old non-angled interstate pipes and mufflers (I've seen such in the Pictures thread) be advised that if you soften up the ride with progressive or other more compliant springs front and rear, or even one or the other, you will run out of lean angle way too soon. You can only lean until the mufflers drag.

On a weekend club trip, in such a situation on a tight, blind, right-hand bend, I drifted into the oncoming lane with sparks flying off the silencer. Round the bend comes a motor home. Only the presence of mind to lean off way more than ever before saved the day. The other alternative was the guard rail at the edge of the view point pull-out. I'll never forget it. I think about it every time I travel that road, about once a month.

On Monday the bike got a new set of roadster pipes and peashooters.
Click to expand...
recently?
50 years ago?
 
o0norton0o said:
I often wonder why you post this kind of thing when you get it wrong nearly every time. There's literally only 2 possibilities, so you have a 50% chance of getting it right. So,... just to help you out,..

When you load the front brake the fork rake angle steepens slightly, so the trail is also reduced which makes the bike LESS stable. It's a pretty simple concept "STABLE bikes want to go STRAIGHT" Think about how much trail a chopper has (a lot) and pretty much the only thing they do well is go straight...

Then, think about motoGP bikes and how steep the rake on those bikes are, and how little trail they have. I bet every one of them has a steering damper to help stabilize them. They are designed with minimum trail to be nimble, not with a lot of trail to be stable.

It's kind of ironic that a guy who was a "racer" doesn't know the basics of fork geometry, but I suppose we all learn from people we respect and sometimes they teach us their mistakes which we continue to believe and repeat as true....
Click to expand...
If you get into a corner too hot, the normal thing is to try and lose speed. If you use the rear brake, you are more likely to drop the bike than if you gently use the front brake. But you cannot user the front brake hard. As you lose speed the front of the bike stays down, the trail is reduced and the bike becomes stable, and tends to run wide faster. At some point before you run off, you must judge the traction of your rear tyre and get on the gas. When you do that, even on a neutral handling bike, the front comes up, the trail increases and the bike will self-steer itself in the correct direction -away from the edge of the bitumen. Race bikes such as the Aprilia usually have about 106mm of trail - mine is somewhere near that. The downside is with a lot of trail the bike can shake its head goingdown long straights. I have never experienced that, however I never ride without an hydraulic steering damper.
If you want to find out the truth - set your front brake up to drag as you enter a corner. It can steer you off the track
Nearly every time I have ridden at Winton, I have gone in too hot one one particular corner. It is never a worry. I just do what needs to be done to get out of the predicament.
With a lot of trail the bike usually flicks into corners more easily, so it is not for everyone. With my bike, I brake before the corner, flick it in and almost immediately accelerate flat out right around the corner and up the next straight. It is disconcerting but lovely.
 
When I had Ducati fork yokes on my Seeley, it had about 94mm of trail. As I braked for corners I could feel it trying to stand up and go straight. It stood-up and almost decked my mate. I thought he did not know what he was talking about until it happened to me. It stood up and chucked me over the side of the bike with understeer. I hanged onto it and accelerated towards the outside of the corner where there was grass. It came out of it's silliness. I am used to crashing, but most are probably not. It takes a lot to deck me. I don't usually ride modern bikes.
 

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