High temp head gasket sealer comparison

jseng1 · Jun 20, 2017

CanukNortonNut said:
Jim,
Have you tried Wellseal jointing compound yet? http://www.wellseal.co.uk/
I have used it with success on the crankcase halves and flame ring gasket as per Hemmings video. Using his instructions to leave it overnight to go tacky.
Good to hear all the comments.
Cheers,
Thomas

I got your sample of Wellseal today.

Wellseal stays gooey – non hardening and there is no adhesion to the metal when left to dry overnight. Starts smoking at 400F and turns to water consistency at 450F. Similar viscosity to Halomar AF but not as high temp tolerant. Several jointing compounds have been suggested but I'm not sure I see any advantage they have other than ease of disassembly. I prefer a sealer that adheres to metal and stays in place over a jointing compound.

madass140 · Jun 20, 2017

Which Pliobond ? 25, 35 ??

jseng1 · Jun 21, 2017

madass140 said:
Which Pliobond ? 25, 35 ??

I've only used pliobond 20 or 25. They are essentially the same - #20 comes in a smaller tube and has a different solvent but they both dry out the same. Ron Wood is the one who 1st started using pliobond on Norton heads - info forwarded to me by Ken Canaga.

All I use is pliobond and a .003" thin copper ring with .005" copper wire that crushes down to a couple thou. No leaks at all after 5 years. The pliobond must be applied to EVERY surface.

"The right stuff" below should have worked but didn't. Might have worked better if it was bonded to each surface instead of just being crushed against one surface - harder to apply and be tidy whereas you can get sloppy with the pliobond - just be sure to blow the oil drain with air to check for clearance before bolting on the timing cover.

baz · Jun 22, 2017

Does anybody sell pliobond or equivalent in the UK? Cheers

kommando · Jun 22, 2017

Nearest is Germany

http://www.micro-tools.de/en/Adhesives-Glue/

But they only have the 1oz in stock, the 3 oz for virtually the same price is out of stock.

baldy · Jun 27, 2017

Jim,

Yet another choice. Have not tried.

Permatex® High Tack™ Gasket Sealant Category: Gasket SealantsFast-drying all-purpose sealant dries to a highly tacky, non-brittle film. A reliable general adhesive remains tacky indefinitely can be applied in advance for convenience in assembly. Remains effective at temperatures of -65°F to 500°F (-54°C to 260°C). Sensor-safe. Resists gasoline, oil, antifreeze, axle lube, kerosene, propane and butane.

jseng1 · Jun 28, 2017

baldy said:
Jim,

Yet another choice. Have not tried.

Permatex® High Tack™ Gasket Sealant Category: Gasket SealantsFast-drying all-purpose sealant dries to a highly tacky, non-brittle film. A reliable general adhesive remains tacky indefinitely can be applied in advance for convenience in assembly. Remains effective at temperatures of -65°F to 500°F (-54°C to 260°C). Sensor-safe. Resists gasoline, oil, antifreeze, axle lube, kerosene, propane and butane.

Yeah - I tested it. Its further down on the list at the top of this thread.

"Permatex high tac turns to liquid, smokes and loses adhesion at about 350 F."

SteveA · Jul 8, 2017

jseng1 said:
seattle##gs said:

Does the pliobond act as a glue and make the head difficult to take off? Will it work with a flame ring head gasket?

Click to expand...

Pliobond is not going to glue the head on - that just doesn't happen and it always comes loose with the valve spring pressure on the pushrods. I think pliobond would be pointless on a flame ring but it might help it last longer. The flame ring can eventually fail. They are not hard and flat and so your head can warp a little with a flame ring.

I used Pliobond for the first time a few weeks ago, took the head off again yesterday....it was STUCK!

Needed a lump of wood and a hammer to shift it, and I cant see me cleaning it off the gasket until I figure what dissolves it, though it looks like it will clean up on the head and barrel faces easy enough.

I thought I had followed instruction pretty well, coated all four surfaces, used the bottle supplied brush. Maybe I just used too much?

jseng1 · Jul 8, 2017

SteveA said:
jseng1 said:

seattle##gs said:

Does the pliobond act as a glue and make the head difficult to take off? Will it work with a flame ring head gasket?

Click to expand...

Pliobond is not going to glue the head on - that just doesn't happen and it always comes loose with the valve spring pressure on the pushrods. I think pliobond would be pointless on a flame ring but it might help it last longer. The flame ring can eventually fail. They are not hard and flat and so your head can warp a little with a flame ring.

Click to expand...

I used Pliobond for the first time a few weeks ago, took the head off again yesterday....it was STUCK!

Needed a lump of wood and a hammer to shift it, and I cant see me cleaning it off the gasket until I figure what dissolves it, though it looks like it will clean up on the head and barrel faces easy enough.

I thought I had followed instruction pretty well, coated all four surfaces, used the bottle supplied brush. Maybe I just used too much?

I've never had the problem you mention. Neither has anyone else reported a removal problem. The head has always come loose with the valve spring pressure - even at TDC.

1. Did you run the motor as usual and bring it up to temp?

2. Why did you remove the head?

You wouldn't have used too much unless you went beyond the head gasket circumference. You must have achieved an extremely good gluing job. I've never managed to get it to stick and I've had the head off several times after using pliobond.

Just heat up (anneal) the copper Head gasket and the pliobond will dissappear like magic. Thin .003" gasket rings only last a couple removals.

SteveA · Jul 8, 2017

jseng1 said:
1. Did you run the motor as usual and bring it up to temp?

2. Why did you remove the head?

You wouldn't have used too much unless you went beyond the head gasket circumference. You must have achieved an extremely good gluing job. I've never managed to get it to stick and I've had the head off several times after using pliobond.

Just heat up (anneal) the copper Head gasket and the pliobond will dissappear like magic. Thin .003" gasket rings only last a couple removals.

Nope, bike has not run since last race meeting when primary broke! so it was cold. I am going to change the valve timing so wanted the head off, and to check clearances and see if I can use a thinner gasket and still get piston to valve clearance! its a 0.040" gasket.

I did remove the head in the frame, but even if I ran it, by the time I would get the carbs, exhaust, head steady, oil filter and coils off to get clearance, it would be cold. This is a Rickman frame with pipes running inside frame tubes and under carbs, oil filter behind barrels, it is all a tightish fit.

I only removed it in the frame because I wanted the bottom end in to mark up the new front pulley for timing marks against the pointer mounted on the belt cover, so I wanted to be 100% sure of TDC, that job is done, bottom end will likely come out tomorrow and motor will get built back up on bench, which I much prefer. Probably 3 trial runs before it is buttoned up.

Of course, on the other hand, I am pretty sure it was sealed!

jseng1 · Jul 9, 2017

SteveA said:
jseng1 said:

1. Did you run the motor as usual and bring it up to temp?

2. Why did you remove the head?

You wouldn't have used too much unless you went beyond the head gasket circumference. You must have achieved an extremely good gluing job. I've never managed to get it to stick and I've had the head off several times after using pliobond.

Just heat up (anneal) the copper Head gasket and the pliobond will dissappear like magic. Thin .003" gasket rings only last a couple removals.

Click to expand...

Nope, bike has not run since last race meeting when primary broke! so it was cold. I am going to change the valve timing so wanted the head off, and to check clearances and see if I can use a thinner gasket and still get piston to valve clearance! its a 0.040" gasket.

I did remove the head in the frame, but even if I ran it, by the time I would get the carbs, exhaust, head steady, oil filter and coils off to get clearance, it would be cold. This is a Rickman frame with pipes running inside frame tubes and under carbs, oil filter behind barrels, it is all a tightish fit.

I only removed it in the frame because I wanted the bottom end in to mark up the new front pulley for timing marks against the pointer mounted on the belt cover, so I wanted to be 100% sure of TDC, that job is done, bottom end will likely come out tomorrow and motor will get built back up on bench, which I much prefer. Probably 3 trial runs before it is buttoned up.

Of course, on the other hand, I am pretty sure it was sealed!

If it happens again I think you could just kick the motor over and the compression should break the head loose. And heating the gasket to red as with annealing will clean off any sealer. I'm just surprised it didn't pop loose from the valve spring pressure - thats what happens for me. Pliobond is rubber cement and has been used to seal British bikes as long as I can remember - commonly sold as "gasgacinch". But gasgacinch doesn't work as well a pliobond. The important thing is that it didn't leak. You don't have to warm it up to remove the head. I was just wondering if it held tight because it was never started and never got hot. The heat darkens the pliobond a little and seems easier to remove after the motors been run.

SteveA · Jul 9, 2017

No Jim, it was taken through a couple of heat cycles doing normal post rebuild stuff, noise test, practice, on complete race and a bit of the next.

But why do you think I might have a kick starter :shock:

I did turn the motor over to try and get it to pop, but nope! on my rollers it might have done, but the logistics from it being up on my bench to being on rollers was defeated by seeing a lump of wood to hand! And it is only a Fullauto head, right!

jseng1 · Jul 9, 2017

SteveA said:
No Jim, it was taken through a couple of heat cycles doing normal post rebuild stuff, noise test, practice, on complete race and a bit of the next.

But why do you think I might have a kick starter :shock:

I did turn the motor over to try and get it to pop, but nope! on my rollers it might have done, but the logistics from it being up on my bench to being on rollers was defeated by seeing a lump of wood to hand! And it is only a Fullauto head, right!

Well thank God for lumps of wood. But you have to be carefull - when I acquired my 1st Norton Atlas and rebuilt it - I found a chunk of wood in the sump. When I started racing, one of my jesting fellow racers told me there was a problem with my old Atlas was because I removed that piece of wood.

xbacksideslider · Jul 12, 2017

How far humanity's tools have come! We started with wood, then on to stone, then bronze, iron, and steel. We've come "full circle," when we use wood on a Full Auto.

High temp head gasket sealer comparison

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