High RPM RX cam for radiused lifters

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SteveA said:
Snotzo said:
Last year I saw Gary Thwaites race the Commando, and must say in Classic racing in the UK, a more impressive combination of man and machine would have been very hard to find. Unfortunately, I understand he is not racing the machine this year as it has been sold, but do not have any further details.

Gary is currently racing a 750 triple, and who knows where the Watson Nortons went? But this year in UK classic racing we have seen 4 more Norton 750s, 3 from France racing in F750, two are father and son, the young Frenchman in particular is very fast and beat Gary at least once over the weekend, which was pleasing. Could be pleasing for Jim since all 4 sport JSM parts.

Oh! and the 4th bike?, well I got a full weekend of 8 races on mine, trying my best to get past the 3rd of the Frenchmen :D.

My guess is that Gary's old Norton is currently being tarted up with a new identity, so that the new rider is not constantly being told that its a shame he ain't as good as Gary was on it !!
 
SteveA said:
... this year in UK classic racing we have seen 4 more Norton 750s, 3 from France racing in F750, two are father and son, the young Frenchman in particular is very fast and beat Gary at least once over the weekend, which was pleasing. Could be pleasing for Jim since all 4 sport JSM parts.

Oh! and the 4th bike?, well I got a full weekend of 8 races on mine, trying my best to get past the 3rd of the Frenchmen :D.

I'm assuming this is the fast Frenchman you mention - a serious leaner.
High RPM RX cam for radiused lifters

Dragging the whole leg from ankle up to the knee reminds me of the old racing days on the monoshock.

And I assume this is you Steve A in a braking contest with a 4 cyl.
High RPM RX cam for radiused lifters


Its great to see some racing photos and hear from track riders. There just isn't enough of this on this forum. Very heartening to learn that several racers are doing well with the JS parts as well - thanks for that note.

More photos at the links Steve A shares in his post above.
 
Yes Jim, 122 is Steve Perlinski, I think the bikes are built by his father Bruno, who is no slouch himself, finishing 6th or thereabouts amongst the triples and the lone 750 Honda 4.

They take 6 bikes to meetngs for the 3 riders, but Anglesey in Wales is quite a trip from Lille in Northern France (in European terms!) so a spare must be handy!

Steve high sided in the last race of F750 for the weekend, he seemed OK, but I was following the 3rd Frenchman Daniel when we exited the same corner to see the bike and Steve on the floor.....of course he sat up to see if his friend was OK!, and nearly had a bigger problem himself......of course I braked to avoid him and dropped back.....which is why I had to do the big lunge later.....c'est la vie!
 
SteveA said:
Brooking 850 said:
SteveA, any pics to share?
Regards Mke

Last lap attempt to pass two guys under braking, last race of 4 in F750.....

Also ran in 1300 claccic (twins) and took 3 seconds in class to Alan Foster on Rickman No 4.

The Frenchmen ran as nos 122, 126 and 164 in F750.

http://w.pjm-photography.co.uk/CRMC/201 ... -jun15.htm

More pics of the weekend on here

http://www.sport-pics.co.uk/newsite/BZ_ ... &gallery=1

Here's a photo of another Frenchman pouring it on.

High RPM RX cam for radiused lifters
 
No kidding gets my attention with narly gray engine edges looking like teeth bared. The tires could take a bit more lean to resist the flying back up but looks like no air space left under neath. Do they know what happens if rpm cam ram in sharply increases out put doing this so front lifts off while leaned and hanging off? If leaned enough just sharpens turns, if not oh well that racing on razor edge.
 
#126 is Bruno Perlinski, Steve's dad.

He is running Avon 90/90 AM26 front and 110/80 AM22 rear. I am using these on my BSA Fury/Triumph Bandit frame Yamaha SR500 single.

My Rickman has a coiuple of old tyres I had laying around for the first build.... rear at least seems a bit hard....110/80 AM22 front and 130/70 AM23 rear, though it will get new tyres for Brands Hatch, different brand and skinnier 90/90 front, same size rear.
 
To get back on topic, I have now completed a re design of the Norris RX cam to provide the same valve lift profile as with the original flat follower, but for use with a BSA type follower with a 1.25 inch radius pad.

This has been run through varying simulations up to 10500 rpm, as described in an earlier post, and only at this elevated engine speed was separation and bounce seen to be just on the point of occurring.

The simulation was re run, this time with only a pad radius change to 1.125 inch.

The results were to all intents and purposes identical, when comparing the output data no discernable differences were evident, unless going into four or five places of decimals to find a difference. Maximum and minimum velocity is unchanged, as is acelleration and jerk.

Going one step further, a design was produced to replicate the valve lift design when the 1.125 inch follower was used, and the two cam forms were used in an engine simulation to check for any difference in performance.

The performance predictions were again, to all intents and purposes identical, one trace laying on top of the other from 4000 to 10500 rpm.
The calculated difference at the peak power rpm of 9400 in the simulation was less than 0.25 bhp.

Anyone wanting to run at this extreme engine speed - be my guest! I'm not concerned whether the rest of the engine will hold together, my interest is only with the management of the valve train that would make such rpm possible.

This engine simulation was performed for a cylinder of 83 mm bore, and a 69 mm stroke. All other data input is not representative of any specific engine (as far as I know).

Re acotrel's mention of a 'cam spot' what exactly is meant by that, is it for real, or perhaps just another figment of scientific imagination?
 
Snotzo said:
Re acotrel's mention of a 'cam spot' what exactly is meant by that, is it for real, or perhaps just another figment of scientific imagination?
Although I don't know what exactly was on Allen's mind when he referenced the "cam spot", I suspect he was referring to the abrupt change in performance that accompanies the EX & IN waves coming into correct phase and the engine "coming on the cam" or "coming on the pipe" as it were.
 
In most powerful cycles that rev high have puter control because they go in and out of harmonic tune-ram somewhat unpredictable over several 100 rpm wide ranges, would a 10 grand Commando with above level cam be prone to this?
 
Snotzo said:
To get back on topic, I have now completed a re design of the Norris RX cam to provide the same valve lift profile as with the original flat follower, but for use with a BSA type follower with a 1.25 inch radius pad.

This has been run through varying simulations up to 10500 rpm, as described in an earlier post, and only at this elevated engine speed was separation and bounce seen to be just on the point of occurring.

The simulation was re run, this time with only a pad radius change to 1.125 inch.

The results were to all intents and purposes identical, when comparing the output data no discernable differences were evident, unless going into four or five places of decimals to find a difference. Maximum and minimum velocity is unchanged, as is acelleration and jerk.

Going one step further, a design was produced to replicate the valve lift design when the 1.125 inch follower was used, and the two cam forms were used in an engine simulation to check for any difference in performance.

The performance predictions were again, to all intents and purposes identical, one trace laying on top of the other from 4000 to 10500 rpm.
The calculated difference at the peak power rpm of 9400 in the simulation was less than 0.25 bhp.

Anyone wanting to run at this extreme engine speed - be my guest! I'm not concerned whether the rest of the engine will hold together, my interest is only with the management of the valve train that would make such rpm possible.

This engine simulation was performed for a cylinder of 83 mm bore, and a 69 mm stroke. All other data input is not representative of any specific engine (as far as I know).

Re acotrel's mention of a 'cam spot' what exactly is meant by that, is it for real, or perhaps just another figment of scientific imagination?

Thanks for that input. I didn't realized the RX had that much high RPM potential - although I always had that in mind when I looked at its long duration and comparatively moderate lift. Presently I am working with a couple cam companies trying to get what I want. Any modified cam (including the RX for BSA lifters) would require expensive new masters. Its difficult and time consuming and the cam grinders don't like to be bothered but I'll keep at it. It seems that changing the BSA lifter radius doesn't make much difference with the closing ramps but changes the lift a little at mid ramp and also the length of the contact patch on the lifter pad (proximity to the edges).
 
JS
assuming the followers are located centrally with respect to the camshaft centre line, the 1.125 inch radius lifter will have more than 0.050 thou clearance at each end of the rubbing track, and for the 1.250 inch radius lifter the clearance is just over 0.040 thou each end.

With so much clearance, a small amount of misalignment should be easily accommodated.
 
Might not be cost effective yet but 3D metal printing has passed threshold to print out 30,000 rpm turbine ya can hold in a hand with only minor machine finishing so likely a laser can scan to get profile coded then can tweak like photoshop, hit print and pick up in a day. May be able to print on top a core too now with harder material.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=3d ... t+printing
 
By 'cam spot' I meant the point in the rev range at which the cam starts to really work. Below that point there is not much power. If you fit a genuine race cam to a motor, you usually get an increase in power from bottom to top, but below the cam spot is often not usable. There are two things at play - the cam timings and the exhaust system. With my 850, the 2 into 1 exhaust seems to remove the cam spot and the bike is rideable from extremely low revs. It means that if I get balked in corners, I don't have to slip the clutch. With a bike which has a genuine race cam, it is often dangerous to slip the clutch to get it back on song while cranked over in a corner. Generally speaking, if you increase the duration of the cam, you move the usable rev range upwards and the bottom becomes a problem. With the 2 into 1 exhaust, this does not seem to be a problem, you don't get that sudden burst of power as the revs rise.
 
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