Help troubleshooting kickback & stalls after starting (2016)

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treat yourself to a Pazon ignition and drop the points plate and AAU in the closest garbage can. You are literally throwing away your problems. Check on ebay...the old stuff brings no money. Few people bother with them anymore.
I find that most people today are completely mystified by a points system and few know how to work with them. I got so I could static time them at full advance to within 2 degrees on the first try. Useless knowledge. I could tell you all about the printing business and running printing presses. More useless knowledge.
 
The bike in my profile to the right runs on points and works great, no kickback.
I have had a bike on boyer and 2 low mile bikes on points. Would fit a Pazon as a last resort to the low mile bikes.
I have a NOS AAU still in the box and it too is stiff which i assume is the cosmoline/antirust treatment done at the Lucus factory. Will swap springs and see if that solves the problem.

Now i am chasing a transmission problem which i noticed when bump starting. I cant get 3rd gear. Maybe i installed the internal spring backwards?
 
In 30 years I never had any problems with kick back with the Boyay, set right they shouldn't kick back, but now am running a Joe Hunt maggie, it is now the best ignition system I have ever run on my Norton, starts first kick every time and mostly on 1/2 a swing on the kicker.

Ashley
 
One of the AAU springs was not connected - one side off the tang. Not sure how that happened. I re-connected it and the weights are snapping back better now.
 
If you are going to continue with points, and they can be made to work well, it's important to strobe the timing because doing it by the book could lead to a very over advanced spark. With accurate timing and serviceable AAU and clean points, you should have a fat spark and good performance.
 
My 750 still has the points and is a very smooth runner. My 850 with Boyer never ran as smooth as the 750. 2-3 years ago the Boyer gave up, so I fitted a Pazon. 850 now runs smoothly like the 750. Keep the points while things a running sweetly but fit a Pazon when you have trouble.
Dereck
 
gripper said:
it's important to strobe the timing because doing it by the book could lead to a very over advanced spark .
Click to expand...

I'd agree here. Book just mentions to test with paper but does not mention the spark occurs as points start to open from close. Will measure with a voltage meter on the points and see if I can get a more accurate firing result. I have never used the special washer to hold the AAU open - I just rotate the AAU open with a screwdriver. Am I missing something?
 
elefantrider said:
gripper said:
it's important to strobe the timing because doing it by the book could lead to a very over advanced spark .
Click to expand...

I'd agree here. Book just mentions to test with paper but does not mention the spark occurs as points start to open from close. Will measure with a voltage meter on the points and see if I can get a more accurate firing result. I have never used the special washer to hold the AAU open - I just rotate the AAU open with a screwdriver. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Its no special washer just a washer that will hold the AAU fully open when you set the points, no good holding it open with a screw driver, but mind you its been well over 37 years that I have done points on my Norton and if done right you can normally get it pretty close to the mark but best to strobe it after it has been set and make sure you set the points on the right mark as some rotors have to timing marks, just make sure when setting points that the pistons are near TDC to make sure you are on the right mark as the other mark will be BDC, its a easy mistake to do if your got two timing marks on your rotor.

Ashley
 
You will have to find the right washer to lock the AAU fully open to set your points, fully open the AAU with your fingers then lock the bolt and washer so it stays open, but if I was you buy a EI and once set will stay set, points can be so much troubles if you don't know how to do them and they can also give the so call experts troubles setting them right,

Another thing to think about, never file your points as that takes the harding off the points and they will wear out quicker, if they need to be cleaned just use a bit of metho or white sprit.

Ashley
 
Does this wiring look to be connected to the correct ignition switch terminals? Spark looks small for being connected to a fully charged battery.
 

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Help troubleshooting kickback & stalls after starting (2016)

According to the '71 wiring schematic, #1 on the switch should be fed by the Brown/Blue (NU) off of the negative post of the battery (assuming still positive earth system), #2 goes to the White wire for feeding ignition and operating lights, while #3 connects to Brown/Green (NG) for parking lights. How does this jive with the back of your switch? I believe the terminals are numbered...

Keep in mind that all of the coil's current has to pass through the notoriously bad kill switch on the handlebars. Many have tried cleaning the switch contacts with mixed results, some have merely eliminated the switch, while others have added a relay that ultimately is powered by the kill switch. That way, the relay handles the load, while the handlebar switch only controls the miniscule current required to operate the relay. It might behoove you to directly power the ignition system from the battery and see how it behaves. 'Something to keep in mind while searching for ignition gremlins.

Nathan
 
Thanks Nathan,
I will check the ignition switch and kill switch today.

It's been a while since I've had apart a kill switch. After taking apart, shall I measure both leads on the switch for resistance with a voltage/ohm meter?
 
Ding ding. I think we have a winner. Brown/green wire was on the wrong terminal! I put it back on #3 instead of #4, reconnected the battery, turned the key and heard a poof out th exhaust. I didn't have the time to start it but will later. I am sure this is the culprit. The symptoms were strange because the lights operate the same, red ignition light and all, just a weak spark and no start condition. Will kick it over, put a timing light on it and report back later.
 
A few things....

1) ignition switch contacts get crusty and make poor contact which can cause fluctuation in voltage to the electronic ignition. the kill switch is also a candidate to cause this effect. I've completely disassembled my key switch by drilling out the rivets and I polished up the contacts when I thought my ignition was getting weird... It solved the issue.

2) I added extra grounds from my engine to my battery's positive terminal. It's an isolatically mounted engine that shakes on a rubber mounting system. Extra grounds make sure the engine is well grounded which helps maintain a good spark.

3)Do the battery/headlight test. Check your battery voltage, then turn your headlight on for 5 minutes and then check the voltage again. If it's a strong battery, it should be nearly the same voltage. Electronic ignitions like a steady voltage

4) the funny saying is true... Half of all electrical problems are really carburator related, and visa versa... so go over the electrical system, charge the battery to see if that makes a difference, check all your components and connections, but don't rule out carburation....
 
It is popping once or twice but still not starting. Spark is still inconsistent and weak. I will look at swapping out the ignition switch next.
The Frame and Cradle have been power coated so there could be grounding issues. Also, the left most key position "Park" is not operating lights.
 
It is worth checking your ignition timing with a strobe light and degree disc. There are about four things which work together to give consistent combustion conditions - fuel type, comp. ratio, ignition timing and jetting . I always establish the first three first, then jet my carbs to suit. A slight variation in ignition timing can give the same symptoms as a substantial change in jetting. I change the ignition timing away from standard, only when I change my fuel from petrol to methanol. It might be desirable to change it if you are using petrol with an ethanol content - follow the petrol company's advice if you think a change to timing might be necessary.

I probably should follow my own advice - I haven't used the strobe light for years, however plug readings can indicate if the ignition timing has moved if you haven't changed the jetting.
 
The best thing I ever done was get rid of the ignition switch altogether as having 2 fail over time and when the first one failed it took sometime to find it was the problem, I also disconnected the kill switch, how many times has anyone ever used it in a emergency, its just one more thing that can cause problems, I just use a toggle switch (hidden) now for on/off a key switch won't stop your bike being stolen anyway and after time the key switches do wear out or get loose inside or the termimals do corode.

With running a JH maggie on my 850 Featherbed I run minimal wiring on my bike less wiring less problems, infact I only run 4 main power wires and one earth wire on my whole bike and the earth wire runs seprate to the main wiring, one toggle switch for ignition and one for head light on/off, I was running my power from the altenator through a battery elimator but now am setting it up with a very small battery just to brighten things up a bit.

Ashley
 
It would seem that part of the problem is that someone fitted the bike with a later 4 terminal type switch. The 4th terminal is not connected to anything. 1971 model year was supposed to have 3 terminal switches.
 

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elefantrider said:
It would seem that part of the problem is that someone fitted the bike with a later 4 terminal type switch. The 4th terminal is not connected to anything. 1971 model year was supposed to have 3 terminal switches.
Click to expand...

It isn't the original switch, however, that shouldn't matter as long as the connectors are on the correct terminals.

'1' = brown/blue,
'2' = white,
'3'. brown/green.

If you want to test whether the switch itself is faulty, connect brown/blue to white for 'Ignition' and add the brown/green for 'ignition and lights'.
 
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