Head flow testing.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well here are the results from the Maney stage 2 head. It has a 1.615 valve and a 34 mm port.

red line Maney stage 3 head w /1.690 valve
drk green Maney stage 2 head w / 1.615 valve
white is my Fullauto with the 1.560 valve and a port cleanup
lt. green is the out of the box fullauto
blue is a RH4 with an unknown port job

Head flow testing.


And the velocity numbers
drk blue is the stock fullauto
Violet is the Maney stage 3
Yellow is the Maney stage 2
light blue is the RH4
Head flow testing.
 
Fullauto said:
Carbonfibre said:
Epoxy doesnt work for long in exhaust ports, but Ti putty from ITW is fine used for inlet ports. Exhaust ports need to be welded, but on a head such as the Norton there is no real point in altering the exhaust, as this will make little difference.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Check the difference between a standard Norton exhaust port and one of Jim's design and tell me that it won't make much difference. The standard Norton exhaust ports are the wrong shape and far too big as they are.[/quote

Surely a good ignition system, and modern carburetion is doing to make a great deal more difference, and cost far less money to do?
 
Carbonfibre said:
Fullauto said:
Carbonfibre said:
Epoxy doesnt work for long in exhaust ports, but Ti putty from ITW is fine used for inlet ports. Exhaust ports need to be welded, but on a head such as the Norton there is no real point in altering the exhaust, as this will make little difference.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Check the difference between a standard Norton exhaust port and one of Jim's design and tell me that it won't make much difference. The standard Norton exhaust ports are the wrong shape and far too big as they are.[/quote

Surely a good ignition system, and modern carburetion is doing to make a great deal more difference, and cost far less money to do?
Click to expand...


So would replacing the bike with a half worn out crotch rocket but what is the point?
 
So would replacing the bike with a half worn out crotch rocket but what is the point?
Click to expand...

No kidding cosmoz, delivery is everything to me and many many others who prefer their Commando over faster low maintenance appliances that buzz valve train to crank firing order on fat tires that turn greasy when leaned past 45' and look like angry cartoon insects to Ms Peel- who like a bat swooping past to gobble em up like pretty fishing lures to collect. Do observe the sports bikes that can out run race Commando's in the straights, don't see them doing very well in twisties compared to less powerful supermortords. Carbonfiber, bless his doubting Thomas educated attitude, is exactly the target Ms Peel has in her sights to wipe the smirks off real quick, even on the bee line sprints beyond what elites can accelerate to on more technical tracks like Barbers, because there are real turns at the end and they tend to wheelie unless power cut back. Main advantage I see in moderns is they have water cooling so can tolerate sustained fuel burn better. Faster exit flow and smaller exit ports = less heat into engine. In Ms Peel set up this could mean over 17:1 effective CR.
 
Food for thought on Cdo's air cornering limits. Texas Mile and efforts to stream line cars exterior and air flow through grill for cooling got me hunting around on race air craft which can generate thrust from their oil and engine radiators and even spray mist on cooling fins. Many must use air deverters to get air or mixtures to make fast turns with least flow separation and turbulence resistance. So what if a curved mid stream vane was placed to help the intake mixture make the turn into valve bowl? Also vortexes tend to concentrate flow into jets, so vortex generator ahead of the vane might also energize the flow to take a turn faster w/o getting as upset.

I've had mental picture set up to test explosive exhaust flow releases by using a big firecracker or hair spray like potato canon chamber to break through a pressure membrane like valve opening at max PSI heated piston shoving out flow. I'd measure by both the sound and the distance exhaust pipe could toss the 'tator out : )
 
hobot said:
I've had mental picture set up to test explosive exhaust flow releases by using a big firecracker or hair spray like potato canon chamber to break through a pressure membrane like valve opening at max PSI heated piston shoving out flow. I'd measure by both the sound and the distance exhaust pipe could toss the 'tator out : )
Click to expand...

Be sure to film this for us all
 
Comnoz,

You certainly are the numbers dude.

The only numbers I know are my finishes/lap times. I've got an off-the-shelf Fullauto head on my racebike and my numbers have never been better.

Thanks to you and Ken C for your techie minds.
 
Holmeslice said:
Comnoz,

You certainly are the numbers dude.

The only numbers I know are my finishes/lap times. I've got an off-the-shelf Fullauto head on my racebike and my numbers have never been better.

Thanks to you and Ken C for your techie minds.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but have you been able to whoop that pesky Triumph?
 
hi kenny,every guy and his dog knows that being first into turn one does,nt mean you won the race,being first out of the last turn on the last lap and holding it to the line is what counts,ive got two words to say to you to beat that pesky trumpet,and you should be breathing,eating,drinking,sleeping them, SHORT STROKE and bye the way im on your side
 
chris plant said:
hi kenny,every guy and his dog knows that being first into turn one does,nt mean you won the race,being first out of the last turn on the last lap and holding it to the line is what counts,ive got two words to say to you to beat that pesky trumpet,and you should be breathing,eating,drinking,sleeping them, SHORT STROKE and bye the way im on your side
Click to expand...


I'm not so sure a short stroke would be all it takes. I'm thinking maybe a couple ludes in Tim's water bottle could help. Jim :D
 
I'm not so sure a short stroke would be all it takes. I'm thinking maybe a couple ludes in Tim's water bottle could help. Jim :D
Click to expand...

Oh that is just plain mean-ness LOL!, but might be on to something to save the race.

Next time Kenny has it down to the loose roller bearings and heat, I'd sponsor having bearings, barrels, valves and rod shells dry friction coated after prior cryogenic tempering. Main cost it getting them there and back. Even the port coating is supposed to help somehow, beside insulation feature.
 
hobot said:
I'm not so sure a short stroke would be all it takes. I'm thinking maybe a couple ludes in Tim's water bottle could help. Jim :D
Click to expand...

Oh that is just plain mean-ness LOL!, but might be on to something to save the race.

Next time Kenny has it down to the loose roller bearings and heat, I'd sponsor having bearings, barrels, valves and rod shells dry friction coated after prior cryogenic tempering. Main cost it getting them there and back. Even the port coating is supposed to help somehow, beside insulation feature.
Click to expand...


There was no meanness intended. It is just that I have had my butt kicked more times than I would like to admit by guys on bikes that were obviously slower than mine. Kenny is likely a faster rider than I ever was but Tim is one of those extra-ordinary guys who can manage to win no matter who's bike is faster. Jim
 
As a mere bystander I was impressed with Tim's manner and stature and swagger as icon of hero racer, but he didn't have to use anything but right wrist to flat run away from the pack on the first straight. Seriously his Trunip might have been the fastest at Barbers hp wise and just as good as any in the turns. You covered the factory downsides of Triumph heads to my level to know but boy howdy did Tim's builder work around that. I'm not completely in the dark no more d/t 12yr tagging along various lists and saw light a long time ago that Norton or any 360' 2 bearing crank is allergic to rpms and push rod heads have a flow resistance bend so I'm upping the torque side by cheater power adder. I know Peel can pump some power but unknown if she can take the heat for miles of 'hi' boost. I'll experiment with external air diverters and wind scoops but sure would like to see effects of that inside intake port. Btw Kenny is another racer icon too, hi adrenalin pumping machine glowing as much as the engines.

So what would you bring to a shoot out with Ducati's and Suzuki's and Kawaski with as much brains and more brawn than the pilots can control by themselves, especially in turns.

Oh yeah can ya hear a difference in exhaust notes with the better heads?
 
The fact that the Triumph has a unit motor, which obviously helps with making the chassis more rigid than a p/unit Norton, might have something to do with it being a good vintage race bike?
 
comnoz said:
There was no meanness intended. It is just that I have had my butt kicked more times than I would like to admit by guys on bikes that were obviously slower than mine. Kenny is likely a faster rider than I ever was but Tim is one of those extra-ordinary guys who can manage to win no matter who's bike is faster. Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim,

In fact I have beat him, but not when he was on his Triumph. I like to remind him of this occasionally.

I have no question in my mind that Tim is the best vintage motorcycle racer in this country, or beyond. He has a talent most of us will never know. If he needs to go faster, he does. Simple as that. He is my best friend, and the best competitor, and the fact that I've crept up so I can finish close behind (sometimes!) makes me happy. He has helped get me to this point.

I have a good group of support behind me (see my signature) and I believe bike-to-bike, mine is more than capable of crossing the finish first. Only the rider needs a little more oooomph.

Thanks guys.
 
I always like to tell about a race at Talledega GP track. It's a short little go kart track that is great fun to ride. I was duking it out with my favorite competitor and #1 plate holder Larry Kirby. RIP. He was on a Shell 750 Yamaha and I was on my Norton right behind him.
In the series of left turns in the infield about 3/4 through the race some guy came up on my inside and rode on by like I was setting still. He did the same to Larry who moved out a couple foot in surprise and allowed me to follow the leader through. I kept it there about a lap before Larry got back by me. Larry ended up taking first and I got second. My first question was what happened to the guy that passed us. I was told he pulled off on the last lap because he didn't want to take our points. Turns out it was Dick Mann and he was just out there having fun- on a 500 cc Matchless- obviously with no brakes. Jim
 
I was told he pulled off on the last lap because he didn't want to take our points. Turns out it was Dick Mann and he was just out there having fun- on a 500 cc Matchless- obviously with no brakes. Jim
Click to expand...

Oh Man is that report a big Oh Wow to me, ain't skeer'd of turns no brakes needed. Tim may be best rider but his hp eliminated that factor to come in 1st at Barbers. On the start Tim was 1/3 back in field when he popped a 45+ angle wheelie and lost a few more bike lengths to let it come down but by next hook around turn he was all lone out front and increased the gap the rest of the race. So much so I'm still confused if Tim's Triumph was even in same race class as Kenny and the ones his fought hard with bike to bike most the race.

If the 500cc could run by big twins, implies how much advantage a good handling cycle with skilled rider is worth, wonderful! Are Matchless heads a mimic match of Norton' heads? The guys that now impress me the most are Indian riders flopping and flailing around yet I was flabbergasted fabulously to see one out lean and out sharp and out pull 125cc through turns, then not change distance down the straight as perfect matched power vs resistance, till next turn.

Hope Peel Combat head allows decent performance w/o the Drouin so hoping its flow faults tame the cam to make it to pavement and still embarass the elites till land speed sections and rates allow them to catch up if I give room or they just go nuts and pass over crests and blinds I slow up for in public.
 
comnoz said:
I always like to tell about a race at Talledega GP track. It's a short little go kart track that is great fun to ride. I was duking it out with my favorite competitor and #1 plate holder Larry Kirby. RIP. He was on a Shell 750 Yamaha and I was on my Norton right behind him.
In the series of left turns in the infield about 3/4 through the race some guy came up on my inside and rode on by like I was setting still. He did the same to Larry who moved out a couple foot in surprise and allowed me to follow the leader through. I kept it there about a lap before Larry got back by me. Larry ended up taking first and I got second. My first question was what happened to the guy that passed us. I was told he pulled off on the last lap because he didn't want to take our points. Turns out it was Dick Mann and he was just out there having fun- on a 500 cc Matchless- obviously with no brakes. Jim
Click to expand...

The Sandy Bandit (Cliff Majhor) would often say that Dick Mann could win a motorcycle race on a pogo stick.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top