Harley's ...

If I was into road bikes, I'd buy a BMW long before I'd buy a Harley. The only modern Harley I've ridden was a softail something. I rode it out of a driveway and almost ended up in the gutter on the other side of the road. I didn't realise you have to actually STEER them. I turned it and it lumbered off down the road - it didn't stop, go or handle, but it sounded really great. I really like the XR750TT Harley racers, they have actually got something going for them, but bang for the buck playing with the Sportster motor might be horribly expensive. I think an S1 Buell might be a good thing - PITY !
 
I currently ride a 103" twin cam softail. Before that I rode an 80" evo dyna (25 years on the evo). The softail is a heavy framed bike and it handles like it. The dyna is a bit more nimble. The softail suspension really doesnt have alot of travel (so no sand dunes or trail riding :D )

The softail has a counter balanced "B" motor, rigid mounted. The dyna has a rubber mounted motor with no counter balance. They both have about the same vibration when riding but the dyna motor thumps in the fame especially at idle.

From my experience the 103 motor feels sluggish but it isnt too bad compared to the evo and most harley guys think it is ok. The new bikes are geared funny. You dont need 6th gear until about 140 km/h and over.

If I had to sum it up. The softail is more about style and the dyna is more about handling. Both bike have basically tons of parts so you can trick it out for touring or whatever.

I hope this helps,
Kyle
 
Kber45 said:
I currently ride a 103" twin cam softail. Before that I rode an 80" evo dyna (25 years on the evo). The softail is a heavy framed bike and it handles like it. The dyna is a bit more nimble. The softail suspension really doesnt have alot of travel (so no sand dunes or trail riding :D )

The softail has a counter balanced "B" motor, rigid mounted. The dyna has a rubber mounted motor with no counter balance. They both have about the same vibration when riding but the dyna motor thumps in the fame especially at idle.

From my experience the 103 motor feels sluggish but it isnt too bad compared to the evo and most harley guys think it is ok. The new bikes are geared funny. You dont need 6th gear until about 140 km/h and over.

If I had to sum it up. The softail is more about style and the dyna is more about handling. Both bike have basically tons of parts so you can trick it out for touring or whatever.

I hope this helps,
Kyle
Click to expand...

Thanks Kyle, you confirmed my thoughts re "the softail is more about style and the dyna is more about handling".

But you surprised me somewhat by saying the 103 motor feels sluggish...
 
acotrel said:
If I was into road bikes, I'd buy a BMW long before I'd buy a Harley. The only modern Harley I've ridden was a softail something. I rode it out of a driveway and almost ended up in the gutter on the other side of the road. I didn't realise you have to actually STEER them. I turned it and it lumbered off down the road - it didn't stop, go or handle, but it sounded really great. I really like the XR750TT Harley racers, they have actually got something going for them, but bang for the buck playing with the Sportster motor might be horribly expensive. I think an S1 Buell might be a good thing - PITY !
Click to expand...


I like my 98 Buell S1W fast nimble bike a lot of fun to ride although the seats a little hard on the rear.

Mark
 
Yes. I was suprised about the 103 motor. Most harley guys think it really pulls hard. It may be because I have a Fatboy. The wheels are so heavy. Although the motor is strong it feels sluggish and slow to get up to speed. After about 3500 it starts to really come on but before that it is a dog.

On my evo (dyna) I ran a hotter cam and lightened the valve train also performance carb and exhaust. So it really jumped off the line. I rode the Fatboy for two seasons and was frustrated by the acceleration. So, I ended up putting in a hotter cam, programmable ECU and perf exhaust. It is a little better but my wifes sportster will beat it off the line.

Without highjacking the thread, getting off topic or starting a war: I think the sportster is a far superior bike than the bigger twin cam. Lots of reasons why but I digress.
 
Kyle, you do NOT digress sir, the thread is titled 'Harleys' after all!

And I have also been looking at Sportsters quite a bit. I rode a mate X1 Buell once and its always stuck in my mind how good it was, especially using a Halrley base for the motor (I do not know how different those motors were to 1200 Sportsters).

The trouble with Sportsers is that most Harley aficionado's tell me how bad they are, not real Harley's, etc!

When I look at power to weight / torque to weight ratios, the Sportsters are at least as good as any other Harley. And the overall lower weight should show itself as generally better handling and braking too.

So please share why you think its superior Kyle. And what's the sensible list of 'go faster' mods for a Sportser, I know the sky is the limit when it comes to Harley's! Hence the term 'sensible list' ...?
 
Fast Eddie said:
Johnny, thanks for the informed response, much appreciated.

My 'problem' with 1340 Evo motors is that I rode one in the 90's, I guess it was stock, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by it! It pulled great from tick over, then just as I was thinking "hey, this could be fun" it totally ran out of breath! As I said, I think this was a stocker, and I'm sure a 1340 that's been tweaked by someone who knows what they're doing is a different proposition altogether.
I guess, given the architecture, Harley suffer more than most with emissions and some mild non emission conscious 'tweaking' could have a big effect..
Click to expand...

I thought it was well know that H/D suffers from their emission laws and are therefore somewhat “strangled” out of the factory-therefore there is a whole range of “tuning goodies “available for new H/Ds.
As emission laws get tighter, I find it rather amusing that a lot of new bike owners purchase a new H/D from the showroom and have to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to allow the somewhat strangled engine to breathe more freely :(
Just my opinion
 
Nothing wrong with Sportsters I did own one (1991 1200 first of the 5 speed and belt drive) but my hot Norton still would blow it off, as for not being a real Harley, they have been building Sportsters since 1957, no other Harley model has lasted that long that I know of, the only problem with them is the piss poor fuel tank. stopping all the time filling it up, I ended up putting a 5 gal one peice fatbob tank on it, just welded new brakets to the front of the tank, 2 spacers and a bolt hole throught the front gusset on the frame and a long bolt, fitted great and suited the Sportster, still can't work out why they still put small tanks on them, I also got a set of straight through exhausts made for it, it went pretty good and did a great burn out and had the front wheel off the ground a few times (many times).

Ashley
 
Bernhard said:
Fast Eddie said:
Johnny, thanks for the informed response, much appreciated.

My 'problem' with 1340 Evo motors is that I rode one in the 90's, I guess it was stock, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by it! It pulled great from tick over, then just as I was thinking "hey, this could be fun" it totally ran out of breath! As I said, I think this was a stocker, and I'm sure a 1340 that's been tweaked by someone who knows what they're doing is a different proposition altogether.
I guess, given the architecture, Harley suffer more than most with emissions and some mild non emission conscious 'tweaking' could have a big effect..
Click to expand...

I thought it was well know that H/D suffers from their emission laws and are therefore somewhat “strangled” out of the factory-therefore there is a whole range of “tuning goodies “available for new H/Ds.
As emission laws get tighter, I find it rather amusing that a lot of new bike owners purchase a new H/D from the showroom and have to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to allow the somewhat strangled engine to breathe more freely :(
Just my opinion
Click to expand...

True, but its not too dissimilar to any other 'modern classic' buyer I guess, inc the soon to be released Bonnevilles and new Nortons.
 
Many Harley types are so xenophobic, they even have to downgrade other Harleys (in this case, Sportsters). All their machines have gotten better and more oil-tight over time, and the aftermarket for performance mods is nearly as big as the one for chrome doo-dads. Big Twins can be modded to produce more bhp and torque than Sportster motors, but the weight mostly negates the difference. My friend's 103" Dyna Wide Glide is no slouch, with a few simple mods like pipes and a fuel controller. I also rode another friend's XR 1200 and it would be quite entertaining with some power-up mods.

The most difficult thing about Harley ownership, and the main thing that's kept me from ever owning one is the lifestyle baggage that goes wiih the marque. Too many Harley owners are steeped in it and the above-mentioned xenophobia and too many non-Harley types buy into it as carved in stone. It's changed over the years, but it's still there.

One of the weekend pastimes around here used to be a tour of all the different brand shops, British, Japanese AND Harley. Widman H-D in St. Louis was an old-line dealership that was always on the list. Earl Widman designed the frames for the XRTT and built some of the originals. They and other dealers like them kept Milwaukee in business when their build quality was in the toilet. Eventually, they shut down after refusing to build a new shotglass-and-underwear boutique out by the Interstate. At one time, they bought out a Norton dealer, and I would go there for parts and advice. One time, when I walked up to the counter, Earl's son Ron looked at me and said, "You know, the worst thing about being a Harley shop is dealing with all these fuckin' rednecks!" Years later, they added Suzuki to their product line, a move not appreciated by the lawyers who had taken control by that time. I had a Suzuki, so I would buy valve cover gaskets and various items. I stopped by to get something once, and there was Ronnie, still behind the counter, gone gray, needing glasses now and several pounds heavier. He looked at me and said, "You know, the worst thing about being a Harley shop is dealing with all these fuckin' yuppies!"
 
With regards to sportsters: some guys may think a nimble 1200 cc bike is girly. Whatever.... The sportster has a long history and came out originally to try and counter the faster brit bikes. Lots of the younger guys are switching to sportster. Check out what Roland Sands is doing with custom work.

IMHO, the drawbacks to the sportster are the smaller gas tank and the common oil for the primary and transmission (transmission and gearbox in brit speak lol).

Again IMHO the big twin is simply too big and heavy for the design. Some of these problems below are no longer issues or Harley is working to resolve them. Some not.

1. The twin cam switched to gear driven cams. The cam chain tensioners are a wear problem. The first version of spring type were a serious problem. The revised hydraulic version is a little better. You usually can not convert to gear driven cams because the twin cam crank run out spec is too loose 0.010". Evo spec was 0.003 I think. Sporty cams are gear driven.

2. The engine run hot, really hot. Sporty not as bad. Switching to synthetic can lower the oil temp a bit. They need to run hot to meet emmission limits. I can believe heat like this is good for long term engine life.

3. Brakes are undersized for the heavy wiegth of an 800 lbs touring bike. Front rotors can and do warp.

4. Around 2007 the went to single row sealed metric wheels bearings. Single row is just not strong enought, they need to be changed frequently.

5. Harley switched to a hydraulic primary chain tensioner. To save people from having to chech chain tension. These chains run very tight. Compensator failures are a big problem, clutch hub bearing failure is a problem for some. This componsater failure is compounded by the gear ratio they have and the fact most guys lug the engine (really low rpm, too high a gear) because it sounds "cool"

I am NOT saying Harleys are bad or that you will have these problems. I am only trying to differential some of the problems big twins have that sportster do not have or have to a much lesser degree.

Thanks,

Kber45 (Kyle)
 
Thanks Kyle, great info!

Now, what the top tuning tips for Sporties then?
 
Sorry I tried to post a sporty perf post but it was lost in cyberspace

I have not done any sporty mods so cannot speak first hand. I did but this book "Harley Davidson Sportster Performance Handbook, 3rd Edition as I intended to build a fast sporty but then I found another basket Norton.....

As a generalization, the sky is the lmit but you will overall pay more per HP than you would for a big twin. All the regular suppiers cover sportys (S&S, fuel moto) and all the regular rules apply: air filter, exhaust, ECU, cams, head work).
 
Growing up...... all of us young guys liked the sportsters.
They were HD's "hotrods" and the big baggers were for cops and old men.

SPORTSTER:
Harley's ...
 
There are some sporty Sportsters like the XR1200 which was just discontinued around 2013. This one's an '09 with later rear shocks and black exhaust. I find it a lot like my Combat except for the weight. :D At least two of us on this forum are also on the XR1200 forum. Real Harley guys don't like our girly bikes.

Russ

(Hit control minus sign repeatedly to reduce the size if picture too big. control + to bring it back.)

Harley's ...
 
batrider said:
Real Harley guys don't like our girly bikes.

Russ

Harley's ...
Click to expand...


Yes but the girly bikes will run circles around the bigger real man Harlies and don't they get really pissed off when they do.

Ashley (ex 1200 sportster owner)
 
I thought about sportsters early on. However the biggest expense in building a fast bike is usually the gearbox. I understand the 5 speeder used in many sportsters has top gear as an overdrive ? It is probably due to high overall gearing, however the gear spacing might be strange ?
I think a 1000cc Sportster engine with a good close 5 or 6 speed box to back it up, in a decent frame - might be excellent.
The S1 Buell was a good attempt, however the Yanks seem to have no idea about frames.
 
I can understand why guys ride the bigger Harleys. However the reason I ride motorcycles is because I used to be an adrenalin junkie. These days it is about getting a sense of achievement out of machine development. Of all the Harleys, the Sportster has the most potential for having real fun. I really liked that XR750 that Don Emde brought to Australia. He was much faster than me, however it ran a timing side crank bearing, so did not race on the Sunday amongst the really fast guys.
The bloke who built the Buell was headed in the right direction - should have used a Seeley frame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top