gearbox ratchet pawl spring

See this picture at AN. It looks like the correct starting point to me. Notice coils close together, dog-leg half-way down, crook in other leg.

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15049/gearchange-rachet-spring

seattle##gs said:

I got it to about .007 on each side..

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It is pointless to look for a gap on each side.
It is no guarantee that the pawl will be in the correct position, and in use, there will only be a gap between the pawl and the upper leg of the spring. Did you read my post #11?
And while you're at it: see what type of stop plate you have.
If it has the narrow opening, check that the pin at the back of the pawl carrier does not rub against the plate.
Unlikely, but there is a reason why they made the opening wider.

ludwig said:

It is pointless to look for a gap on each side.

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It's a matter of perspective.

The actual goal is to have the pawl when the cover is installed to be equidistant top and bottom from the ratchet with as little gap as possible at the top. The top and/or bottom leg can be reformed to achieve that and since the other goal is to have the same tension on the pawl when up or down shifting, that is hard to impossible to accomplish without the cover lying flat.

With the cover lying flat, and the pawl top and bottom equidistant from the rachet, then the gap on each side must be equal and the smaller the better as long as there is a gap.

The final check is to hold the cover in the position it will be on the gearbox and see if the ratchet reliably engages when the lever is moved up and down. Of course, that's difficult since a third hand is needed to keep the ratchet in place so the same can be done with it lying flat and then again, the gap must be even since the ratchet won't be sitting on the bottom leg.

The pawl does seem to want to rock forward, the top towards the ratchet. With only a small clearance, the ridge on the bottom of the pawl touches the lower leg at rest. No matter, if it works, it is right.

The picture from Andover Norton certainly looks like the right way to make them. The exact location of the dogleg bend might not be so important but that the legs are in the same plane, and that plane is perpendicular to the axis of the coils is. The tighter coils would help too.

It does look like the two springs are different size wire, but they measured the same.

gjr said:

The pawl does seem to want to rock forward, the top towards the ratchet. With only a small clearance, the ridge on the bottom of the pawl touches the lower leg at rest. No matter, if it works, it is right.

The picture from Andover Norton certainly looks like the right way to make them. The exact location of the dogleg bend might not be so important but that the legs are in the same plane, and that plane is perpendicular to the axis of the coils is. The tighter coils would help too.

It does look like the two springs are different size wire, but they measured the same.

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One thing I keep forgetting to mention and I don't think anyone else has is that when the pawl is engaged with the ratchet, it is important that the spring leg lie flat against the pawl. That's why there is a slight bend in the non-dogleg side.

marshg246 said:

The actual goal is to have the pawl when the cover is installed to be equidistant top and bottom from the ratchet ..

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marshg246 said:

.. the cover lying flat, and the pawl top and bottom equidistant from the rachet, then the gap on each side must be equal ..

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.. but as soon as the cover is installed, the pawl will tilt ( because of the lower gap) and will no longer be 'equidistant' from the rachet.
It will work, but the pawl will not be in the optimal position.

ludwig said:

.. but as soon as the cover is installed, the pawl will tilt ( because of the lower gap) and will no longer be 'equidistant' from the rachet.
It will work, but the pawl will not be in the optimal position.

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Amen.
Because GRAVITY still works.

Mark Savage said:

...seems like I'll be studying this thread as to setting these springs. This happened about 25 miles from home and stuck in 4th gear. Needless to say my clutch got hot but on inspection after things cooled down it looks to have survived.

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That happened to me as well with similar cracking of the spring.

CanukNortonNut said:

That happened to me as well with similar cracking of the spring.

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Yeah I have problems now shifting down into first after shimming the layshaft a la Old Britts . So will pull the cover tomorrow . New spring .

Mark Savage said:

Ok, the spring needs a tweak but which way?
Every now and again, trying to shift from first to second pulling gently away it stays in first. If I accelerate more it shifts to second just fine.
What do you think?

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Reassembled my gearbox today after re- shimming the layshaft kicker with a thinner rear isolastic rear shim (s) a la Old brits article . Shifts perfectly now with no more popping out of first gear . Also changed the outer cover selector spring to a known good one . I had 5 hairpin springs to choose from , 3 of which were new from A . N. and not too happy with the lack of proper bends to the shifter pawl slight clearances each side . .
Drove her downtown to a warehouse party with 2 bands with my wife on backseat . Back at 1:30 A.M.
Amazing ride home in 21 C. , no traffic .

Mark Savage said:

Ok, the spring needs a tweak but which way?
Every now and again, trying to shift from first to second pulling gently away it stays in first. If I accelerate more it shifts to second just fine.
What do you think?

Click to expand...

With the spring not installed, its two ends must be touching and when installed it must be sitting flat on the pivot end - the two legs are bent differently to accommodate both. Then, with the ratchet pawl perfectly parallel to the ratchet, the spring must be as close as possible to the pawl on both sides without touching. Then with the shift lever at the end of it's travel the spring must lay flat on the pawl. So, the answer is - in all ways.

If you have that, then it's probably you - not trying to be funny or an ass. The gearshift lever throw is not consistent up/down or between gears. You must be deliberate when shifting or you'll not quite move it enough, for the gears to move into the new gear set, especially at low speed.

Finally a dragging clutch, or one you are not pulling all the way in can make shifting difficult - especially 1st to 2nd.

marshg246 said:

With the spring not installed, its two ends must be touching and when installed it must be sitting flat on the pivot end - the two legs are bent differently to accommodate both. Then, with the ratchet pawl perfectly parallel to the ratchet, the spring must be as close as possible to the pawl on both sides without touching. Then with the shift lever at the end of it's travel the spring must lay flat on the pawl. So, the answer is - in all ways.

If you have that, then it's probably you - not trying to be funny or an ass. The gearshift lever throw is not consistent up/down or between gears. You must be deliberate when shifting or you'll not quite move it enough, for the gears to move into the new gear set, especially at low speed.

Finally a dragging clutch, or one you are not pulling all the way in can make shifting difficult - especially 1st to 2nd.

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Yes , the new spring from Andover does not function properly as supplied . Bring out the pliers and bend the lower crooked arm of the spring a bit to achieve a tiny bit of clearance , almost neglegable , between the 2 spring arms and the pawl . This cures 1 st , neutral , second shifting issues .

and can be ‘tested’ in the outer cover by operating the gear lever to check that it tilts and engages reliably in each direction.