Front Disc Brake Modification

Hobot · Jan 20, 2014

Ugh, i missed seeing the puck behind the caliper that shows widths match. My interest is I've fitted the Lockheed caliper to a bigger OD rotor which has narrower friction band than the pucks. I don't think it'll matter and main reason to change was weight lose as had enough brake power prior than tire or I could take. While I got your attention, what's you take on drilled holes thru the friction pads and even through a rear drum as well as the shoes? Not for the minor weight lost but for same benefits drilled rotors are said to offer? Getting rid of heavy drum don't count in this case.

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

madass140 said:
well If I'm not the manufacturer of the parts I sell then I dont know who is, you will never find my products being sold by anyone else , why do you think that is???
I've had countless offer from "middlemen" wanting to sell my products, I've always refused.

Your interpretation of what a manufacturer is does not seem to be the same as mine. Finding a few suppliers to make parts for you so you can put a "kit" together is not manufacturing. But then my 40+ years in manufacturing and engineering does not allow me to question your methods or the engineering knowledge required to produce a product as you and many of your friends on this forum have pointed out to me.

Matt Spencer · Jan 20, 2014

mkv750 said:
Hello all on Access Norton, first post here, have been lurking about for a fair while, before finally joining!.

Dennis, very interesting thread, I was wondering if you have a part number for the EBC brake disc you have used?, and the bolt hole positions, was it just re drilling?, or did you have to weld the original holes over, then re drill?.

I have a 1973 mk v I am hoping to get back onto the road for this summer, the brakes are one part of the motorcycle I really do need to upgrade!.

Thanks in advance,

John

Welcome . Mk V / 73 . Nothing but the best . :wink:

Likely the 1/2 bore M/C & other tricks are fine for touring ,
But for 20 yr old street racers , something more might be required .

:twisted:

madass140 · Jan 20, 2014

"But then my 40+ years in manufacturing and engineering does not allow me to question your methods or the engineering knowledge required to produce a product as you and many of your friends on this forum have pointed out to me."
Correct.

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

madass140 said:
"But then my 40+ years in manufacturing and engineering does not allow me to question your methods or the engineering knowledge required to produce a product as you and many of your friends on this forum have pointed out to me."
Correct.

Well we'll let your customer's find out...when their brakes fail because of your poor engineering. I would suggest those that bought kit's from you check the rivets because those solid fixed ones you sold are likely to fail with a caliper designed for floating disc. Not to mention the stamped carriers that are likely not true to the mounting surface...but then you have an explanation for that...over on your "sales" thread.

Fast Eddie · Jan 20, 2014

dennisgb said:
madass140 said:

"But then my 40+ years in manufacturing and engineering does not allow me to question your methods or the engineering knowledge required to produce a product as you and many of your friends on this forum have pointed out to me."
Correct.

Click to expand...

Well we'll let your customer's find out...when their brakes fail because of your poor engineering. I would suggest those that bought kit's from you check the rivets because those solid fixed ones you sold are likely to fail with a caliper designed for floating disc. Not to mention the stamped carriers that are likely not true to the mounting surface...but then you have an explanation for that...over on your "sales" thread.

TIME gentlemen, please !

madass140 · Jan 20, 2014

my calipers are designed for solid discs, they have 6 acting pistons.

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

This is a picture of an EBC Floating Disc bobbin (rivet).

Note the space and the spring washer (spring washer is typical of floating disc for road bikes). Also note that the aluminum carrier hub (disc center) is CNC machined rather than stamped out of aluminum.

Floating disc explained:

http://www.braketech.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=69

madass140 · Jan 20, 2014

yes with spring washer, the same as mine, if the spring washer is compressed to much then it becomes a non floating disc.

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

madass140 said:
yes with spring washer, the same as mine, if the spring washer is compressed to much then it becomes a non floating disc.

Right...so when did you start selling a floater like this? All your pictures show fixed bobbins...

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

You posted this in your thread yesterday:

"just an update on my single disc brake kit and a bit of background.
When the test kits were sent to different parts of the planet for testing I had good results, it wasnt until later I had a
couple of customers with the brake lever pulsing, obviously from disc runout, because the test kits had no issues with this
I assumed all my discs were the same, but thanks to the feedback I realised that some had a couple of thou runout.something
I hadnt anticipated. The discs were not full floating, they are riveted solid, kind of defeats the purpose of having a 2 piece disc. I reriveted a few with new rivets so they would be actually floating but on riveting the riveted part had some splits which didnt look nice, over the last couple of days I have been working frantically to set up new discs, this involved new stainless rivets and a new rivetting proceedure, you can see from the pics the result, the new discs are actually proper floating discs.
Now because they are floating, no doubt there will be some wear over time, like the old 916 Ducatis etc and some British ones
that wear the inner section because they are alloy, the centre section of my discs are stainless so I certainly expect them to last longer than alloy centered floaters."

So now you have a proper floating disc? Pity those that bought the previous "solid" ones...

"but thanks to the feedback I realised that some had a couple of thou runout"

What sort of testing and quality control do you have?

"on riveting the riveted part had some splits which didnt look nice"

Yes "looking nice" is more important than function...not to mention the failure potential of split rivets.

"Now because they are floating, no doubt there will be some wear over time, like the old 916 Ducatis etc and some British ones"

And most motorcycles built in the past 20+ years since the floating disc was employed...discs wear...but I guess you expected yours were so well "engineered" they would never wear out.

"the centre section of my discs are stainless so I certainly expect them to last longer than alloy centered floaters"

Aluminum is used for the carrier to disapate heat...but I'm sure you knew that

I'm done...you have proven your engineering prowess...I bow to you sir.

madass140 · Jan 20, 2014

".I bow to you sir."
and so you should

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

madass140 said:
".I bow to you sir."
and so you should

You haven't a clue. Good luck to you. I hope your Chinese suppliers figure out how to make this for you because you certainly have no idea how to help them.

kommando · Jan 20, 2014

Dennis.

Give it up will you, just because a supplier refuses to supply parts for a bike he has never professed to support you go off on one obsessive rant.

Beach · Jan 20, 2014

Ditto!!!!!!!

dennisgb · Jan 20, 2014

kommando said:
Dennis.

Give it up will you, just because a supplier refuses to supply parts for a bike he has never professed to support you go off on one obsessive rant.

Actually that has nothing to do with it...I did my own conversion and am happy with the results.

You guys believe what you want...just hope things continue to be good with your brake systems and you ride safe.

Good luck...I'm done with discussing this.

mkv750 · Jan 26, 2014

Just wanted to say a quick thank you to Dennisgb and Worntorn for their reply, thanks, I will have a look at the specs for the brake discs, I may well go for a smaller bore master cylinder to start with, I do have a brembo, which I believe is 13mm, but will have a good think on a new master cylinder from madass140, pared with the original calliper and disc, might be enough?, some very useful info on brakes here, an education, thank you mat spencer as well!, very good to be here!,

John

worntorn · Jan 26, 2014

[quote=" I will have a look at the specs for the brake discs, I may well go for a smaller bore master cylinder to start with, I do have a brembo, which I believe is 13mm, but will have a good think on a new master cylinder from madass140, pared with the original calliper and disc, might be enough?,

John[/quote]
John, it depends on where and how you ride. For most normal riding there is enough stop in the standard Lockheed caliper and small pads. I found that it could pull the bike down hard twice, then it needed cooling. For freeway use, city use, or relaxed B road cruising this is fine. Fixing the mastercylinder ratio will make the brake lighter to use but won't change the overheating problem.
So if you like to push fairly hard thru mountainous terrain then you will need some kind of caliper with a larger brake pad surface area. Larger rotors, drilled rotors help as well.

Glen

Al-otment · Jan 26, 2014

I have to say if you use a standard disc braked Commando anywhere then change it, bare minimum improve the master cyl./caliper ratio. My standard brake was totally unsuitable for emergency stops - I missed a car by by sheer luck as it pulled out across my path, I was able to slow down enough to miss it as it continued, very little reduction in speed for a lot of effort. I would have hit it the car if it had stopped. Standard brake set up was the the first thing to go on the bike.

worntorn · Jan 26, 2014

Mine wasn't too bad with the standard setup, tho I have big old hands that are good for crushing things. I could damn near make the front wheel lock, but the pressure required was quite great. Getting the ratio right would definitely make it a more pleasant brake to use, but the other design problems remain.

Glen

Front Disc Brake Modification

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