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- Jan 1, 2005
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Fascinating interview. Can we have some more?
Write on!
Write on!
Frank Damp interview 2015
- Thread starter Douglass Harroun
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
D: Are you saying that U.S. designed fatigue testing found the problem of that British plane?
Frank: No, the British found it.
D: You said, Wright Patterson?
Frank: No. The place they did the testing for the Comet is very similar to NASA, Wright-Patterson Air Force Academy, those kind of things, but a lot of the information from the Comet was disseminated by deHavilland worldwide. And that is where Boeing got it. Boeing got a hell of a jump start on designing for fatigue on the 707 with those test results.
John: The 707, I think, was …about 1955.
Frank: 1958 was the first one actually. And the VC10 which was supposed to compete directly with it did not go onto service until about a year after the 707.
D: You know the Japanese make cars, they make motorcycles. They do not make airplanes.
Frank: Yes they do.. They don’t make commercial passenger airplanes. They do make quite a lot of their own military stuff. Honda just started production on the Honda commercial jet for businesses. Mitsubishi is big airplane maker. It was quite a quite a brave thing for the British to put that information about fatigue out in the world.
Joe: But you saved a lot of lives.
Frank: The way the aircraft industry was organized in England after the war, the ministry of aviation actually began deciding what kind of aeroplane we are going to make. And they never did passenger surveys or anything like that. They were all designed by the government and bought by the government-controlled airlines. For a long time the primary airplanes were flying boats. They had services from England to Australia using big four-engine flying boats.
John: You know the British Standard Whitworth system of hardware. Norton incrementally changed to the inch system, so Commando has a little bit of everything on it.
Frank: What really throws people is when they see a quarter inch Whitworth wrench, it is a hell lot bigger than a quarter inch because it is the wrench for the nut that fits on a quarter-inch diameter bolt. And that’s how they are designated. You find that is an odd thing to do now, but at one time wrenches used in England would say 3/16 W and then it would also have 3/8’s AF, which is “across the flats” of the nut.
Frank: No, the British found it.
D: You said, Wright Patterson?
Frank: No. The place they did the testing for the Comet is very similar to NASA, Wright-Patterson Air Force Academy, those kind of things, but a lot of the information from the Comet was disseminated by deHavilland worldwide. And that is where Boeing got it. Boeing got a hell of a jump start on designing for fatigue on the 707 with those test results.
John: The 707, I think, was …about 1955.
Frank: 1958 was the first one actually. And the VC10 which was supposed to compete directly with it did not go onto service until about a year after the 707.
D: You know the Japanese make cars, they make motorcycles. They do not make airplanes.
Frank: Yes they do.. They don’t make commercial passenger airplanes. They do make quite a lot of their own military stuff. Honda just started production on the Honda commercial jet for businesses. Mitsubishi is big airplane maker. It was quite a quite a brave thing for the British to put that information about fatigue out in the world.
Joe: But you saved a lot of lives.
Frank: The way the aircraft industry was organized in England after the war, the ministry of aviation actually began deciding what kind of aeroplane we are going to make. And they never did passenger surveys or anything like that. They were all designed by the government and bought by the government-controlled airlines. For a long time the primary airplanes were flying boats. They had services from England to Australia using big four-engine flying boats.
John: You know the British Standard Whitworth system of hardware. Norton incrementally changed to the inch system, so Commando has a little bit of everything on it.
Frank: What really throws people is when they see a quarter inch Whitworth wrench, it is a hell lot bigger than a quarter inch because it is the wrench for the nut that fits on a quarter-inch diameter bolt. And that’s how they are designated. You find that is an odd thing to do now, but at one time wrenches used in England would say 3/16 W and then it would also have 3/8’s AF, which is “across the flats” of the nut.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
D: I believe the British developed the screw thread and they got to choose the designations and whatever they wanted to call it.
Frank: In fact, it was invented by a guy named Whitworth.
D: Mr. Damp, when you have a screw made out of metal, it has to be made by another machine and that machine was made by another machine, so what was the first screw thread? Was it like wood , somebody whittled it or how was that done?
Frank: It might have been….. I really don’t know….(laughs)… There were wooden screws in various things and they probably were hand chiseled, but I am not sure as to exactly how the first machine screws came to be.
John : You have to be careful with Whitworth.It has a 55-degree included angle and the the US system has a 60-degree angle, so you will be darn careful of it. You can‘t tell it by looking. Some of them are almost interchangeable.
Frank: And like you say, at Norton it was a gradual change. There is another thread system called cycle threads. And they are all either 20 threads per inch or 26 depending on the diameter and you will find those on Commandos in some places. Usually the ones that hold the wheel spindles in.
D: A lot of people are trying to keep the bolts and the nuts and the parts on their bikes so they don’t vibrate and fall off. They use things like Loctite, you know it’s a glue basically. What you think about that?
Frank: Loctite is okay. I've used it for many, many years, but you are better off using using nuts with a locking nylon insert .
Joe: Nylocs.
Frank: Nylocs, yeah. You can find them in them in BSF or Whitworth threads. The abbreviation is for “British Standard Fine”. These variations come from a lot of small companies doing their own thing. And in many cases the people who made motorcycles started out making bicycles. Some of them were making weapons.
I can remember there was one thing sold in England when I was a kid ….called a Cyclemaster, and it was a 25 cc two-stroke single and it was built into a wheel hub. Late 50s. I don’t know whether you will still find any, but they were quite popular. But you could you ride those without a license.
John: In England, when you get a driver’s license for motorcycle, do they have stages where you have to graduate through?
Frank: Yes, they do now. They didn’t used to. But you can’t learn on anything bigger than a 125. You can’t move up to the 250’s until you have been riding for a year and then when you have been riding the 250s for two years you can move up to the big stuff.
Frank: In fact, it was invented by a guy named Whitworth.
D: Mr. Damp, when you have a screw made out of metal, it has to be made by another machine and that machine was made by another machine, so what was the first screw thread? Was it like wood , somebody whittled it or how was that done?
Frank: It might have been….. I really don’t know….(laughs)… There were wooden screws in various things and they probably were hand chiseled, but I am not sure as to exactly how the first machine screws came to be.
John : You have to be careful with Whitworth.It has a 55-degree included angle and the the US system has a 60-degree angle, so you will be darn careful of it. You can‘t tell it by looking. Some of them are almost interchangeable.
Frank: And like you say, at Norton it was a gradual change. There is another thread system called cycle threads. And they are all either 20 threads per inch or 26 depending on the diameter and you will find those on Commandos in some places. Usually the ones that hold the wheel spindles in.
D: A lot of people are trying to keep the bolts and the nuts and the parts on their bikes so they don’t vibrate and fall off. They use things like Loctite, you know it’s a glue basically. What you think about that?
Frank: Loctite is okay. I've used it for many, many years, but you are better off using using nuts with a locking nylon insert .
Joe: Nylocs.
Frank: Nylocs, yeah. You can find them in them in BSF or Whitworth threads. The abbreviation is for “British Standard Fine”. These variations come from a lot of small companies doing their own thing. And in many cases the people who made motorcycles started out making bicycles. Some of them were making weapons.
I can remember there was one thing sold in England when I was a kid ….called a Cyclemaster, and it was a 25 cc two-stroke single and it was built into a wheel hub. Late 50s. I don’t know whether you will still find any, but they were quite popular. But you could you ride those without a license.
John: In England, when you get a driver’s license for motorcycle, do they have stages where you have to graduate through?
Frank: Yes, they do now. They didn’t used to. But you can’t learn on anything bigger than a 125. You can’t move up to the 250’s until you have been riding for a year and then when you have been riding the 250s for two years you can move up to the big stuff.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
D: Are you saying that U.S. designed fatigue testing found the problem of that British plane?
Frank: No, the British found it.
D: You said, Wright Patterson?
Frank: No. The place they did the testing for the Comet is very similar to NASA, Wright-Patterson Air Force Academy, those kind of things, but a lot of the information from the Comet was disseminated by deHavilland worldwide. And that is where Boeing got it. Boeing got a hell of a jump start on designing for fatigue on the 707 with those test results.
John: The 707, I think, was …about 1955.
Frank: 1958 was the first one actually. And the VC10 which was supposed to compete directly with it did not go onto service until about a year after the 707.
D: You know the Japanese make cars, they make motorcycles. They do not make airplanes.
Frank: Yes they do.. They don’t make commercial passenger airplanes. They do make quite a lot of their own military stuff. Honda just started production on the Honda commercial jet for businesses. Mitsubishi is big airplane maker. It was quite a quite a brave thing for the British to put that information about fatigue out in the world.
Joe: But you saved a lot of lives.
Frank: The way the aircraft industry was organized in England after the war, the ministry of aviation actually began deciding what kind of aeroplane we are going to make. And they never did passenger surveys or anything like that. They were all designed by the government and bought by the government-controlled airlines. For a long time the primary airplanes were flying boats. They had services from England to Australia using big four-engine flying boats.
John: You know the British Standard Whitworth system of hardware. Norton incrementally changed to the inch system, so Commando has a little bit of everything on it.
Frank: What really throws people is when they see a quarter inch Whitworth wrench, it is a hell lot bigger than a quarter inch because it is the wrench for the nut that fits on a quarter-inch diameter bolt. And that’s how they are designated. You find that is an odd thing to do now, but at one time wrenches used in England would say 3/16 W and then it would also have 3/8’s AF, which is “across the flats” of the nut.
Frank: No, the British found it.
D: You said, Wright Patterson?
Frank: No. The place they did the testing for the Comet is very similar to NASA, Wright-Patterson Air Force Academy, those kind of things, but a lot of the information from the Comet was disseminated by deHavilland worldwide. And that is where Boeing got it. Boeing got a hell of a jump start on designing for fatigue on the 707 with those test results.
John: The 707, I think, was …about 1955.
Frank: 1958 was the first one actually. And the VC10 which was supposed to compete directly with it did not go onto service until about a year after the 707.
D: You know the Japanese make cars, they make motorcycles. They do not make airplanes.
Frank: Yes they do.. They don’t make commercial passenger airplanes. They do make quite a lot of their own military stuff. Honda just started production on the Honda commercial jet for businesses. Mitsubishi is big airplane maker. It was quite a quite a brave thing for the British to put that information about fatigue out in the world.
Joe: But you saved a lot of lives.
Frank: The way the aircraft industry was organized in England after the war, the ministry of aviation actually began deciding what kind of aeroplane we are going to make. And they never did passenger surveys or anything like that. They were all designed by the government and bought by the government-controlled airlines. For a long time the primary airplanes were flying boats. They had services from England to Australia using big four-engine flying boats.
John: You know the British Standard Whitworth system of hardware. Norton incrementally changed to the inch system, so Commando has a little bit of everything on it.
Frank: What really throws people is when they see a quarter inch Whitworth wrench, it is a hell lot bigger than a quarter inch because it is the wrench for the nut that fits on a quarter-inch diameter bolt. And that’s how they are designated. You find that is an odd thing to do now, but at one time wrenches used in England would say 3/16 W and then it would also have 3/8’s AF, which is “across the flats” of the nut.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
D: I believe the British developed the screw thread and they got to choose the designations and whatever they wanted to call it.
Frank: In fact, it was invented by a guy named Whitworth.
D: Mr. Damp, when you have a screw made out of metal, it has to be made by another machine and that machine was made by another machine, so what was the first screw thread? Was it like wood , somebody whittled it or how was that done?
Frank: It might have been….. I really don’t know….(laughs)… There were wooden screws in various things and they probably were hand chiseled, but I am not sure as to exactly how the first machine screws came to be.
John : You have to be careful with Whitworth.It has a 55-degree included angle and the the US system has a 60-degree angle, so you will be darn careful of it. You can‘t tell it by looking. Some of them are almost interchangeable.
Frank: And like you say, at Norton it was a gradual change. There is another thread system called cycle threads. And they are all either 20 threads per inch or 26 depending on the diameter and you will find those on Commandos in some places. Usually the ones that hold the wheel spindles in.
D: A lot of people are trying to keep the bolts and the nuts and the parts on their bikes so they don’t vibrate and fall off. They use things like Loctite, you know it’s a glue basically. What you think about that?
Frank: Loctite is okay. I've used it for many, many years, but you are better off using using nuts with a locking nylon insert .
Joe: Nylocs.
Frank: Nylocs, yeah. You can find them in them in BSF or Whitworth threads. The abbreviation is for “British Standard Fine”. These variations come from a lot of small companies doing their own thing. And in many cases the people who made motorcycles started out making bicycles. Some of them were making weapons.
I can remember there was one thing sold in England when I was a kid ….called a Cyclemaster, and it was a 25 cc two-stroke single and it was built into a wheel hub. Late 50s. I don’t know whether you will still find any, but they were quite popular. But you could you ride those without a license.
John: In England, when you get a driver’s license for motorcycle, do they have stages where you have to graduate through?
Frank: Yes, they do now. They didn’t used to. But you can’t learn on anything bigger than a 125. You can’t move up to the 250’s until you have been riding for a year and then when you have been riding the 250s for two years you can move up to the big stuff.
Frank: In fact, it was invented by a guy named Whitworth.
D: Mr. Damp, when you have a screw made out of metal, it has to be made by another machine and that machine was made by another machine, so what was the first screw thread? Was it like wood , somebody whittled it or how was that done?
Frank: It might have been….. I really don’t know….(laughs)… There were wooden screws in various things and they probably were hand chiseled, but I am not sure as to exactly how the first machine screws came to be.
John : You have to be careful with Whitworth.It has a 55-degree included angle and the the US system has a 60-degree angle, so you will be darn careful of it. You can‘t tell it by looking. Some of them are almost interchangeable.
Frank: And like you say, at Norton it was a gradual change. There is another thread system called cycle threads. And they are all either 20 threads per inch or 26 depending on the diameter and you will find those on Commandos in some places. Usually the ones that hold the wheel spindles in.
D: A lot of people are trying to keep the bolts and the nuts and the parts on their bikes so they don’t vibrate and fall off. They use things like Loctite, you know it’s a glue basically. What you think about that?
Frank: Loctite is okay. I've used it for many, many years, but you are better off using using nuts with a locking nylon insert .
Joe: Nylocs.
Frank: Nylocs, yeah. You can find them in them in BSF or Whitworth threads. The abbreviation is for “British Standard Fine”. These variations come from a lot of small companies doing their own thing. And in many cases the people who made motorcycles started out making bicycles. Some of them were making weapons.
I can remember there was one thing sold in England when I was a kid ….called a Cyclemaster, and it was a 25 cc two-stroke single and it was built into a wheel hub. Late 50s. I don’t know whether you will still find any, but they were quite popular. But you could you ride those without a license.
John: In England, when you get a driver’s license for motorcycle, do they have stages where you have to graduate through?
Frank: Yes, they do now. They didn’t used to. But you can’t learn on anything bigger than a 125. You can’t move up to the 250’s until you have been riding for a year and then when you have been riding the 250s for two years you can move up to the big stuff.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
When I started, the smallest bike was a 125cc BSA Bantam which on a good day might put out 4 horse power. And then you could go out and buy a Triumph Bonneville and off you go. Put your learner plates on and off you go.
John: So, when you get a license for 125, is it age 16?
Frank: I don’t know now. It used to be. I think nowadays it might be of the same age for cars which is probably 17. I think they might have aligned them all.
John: So you probably have to be 20 years old to drive a big bike in England, then.
Frank: Probably. I have been away from it for so long, I don’t really know the truth.. It was a fashion for a rider to wear a leather jacket with the name of the bike across the back in brass studs. I remember one engineering student at my school…a weedy-looking kid. Must have been all of 5’ 4” and 110. He got this leather jacket. It has “Vincent” across the back. And he was riding a 125 Bantam. Vincent was actually his name (laughing).
D: Mr. Damp, you spent plenty of time on two wheels. Did you ever hit the ground?
Frank: Yes, I did, usually on ice. When you are doing testing of motorcycles, you can’t say…well I am not going out today; the road is slippery. You just go out and be careful. I think I came down with the Commando maybe twice or three times. When I had my Ariel 250, I had a couple of spills on that, but I have been fairly lucky. The worst one was when I had the Ariel, I was driving to work and it was very icy. I lost it, fell off. Certainly, I don’t know if a patch of ice caused me to fall off but an 18 wheeler was trying to stop before it ran me over. It was kind of interesting.
D: Did you work on your own bikes?
Frank: Yes. That’s the only way to go. If you are on an apprentice salary at $5 a week, you can’t afford to pay a mechanic.
D: What kind of work did you do on those?
Frank: Well, on a two stroke, you don’t have a right lot to do. You just basically check the spark plugs. On the Vespa, I had to strip the engine down and put a new piston in it. The wrist pin in the piston broke up. The Ariel was pretty reliable. I spent most of the repair, maintenance time on that taking the mufflers off, washing all the oil out. It was a gasoline-oil mixture that you ran. It was 16:1 oil. It smoked a bit. The previous owner called it “Smoky”, painted across the leg shields, and he was right. Anyway, I sent a letter off to Ariel’s customer support after I’d had it a while. I said “I am going to take the exhaust system off and then flush it out with caustic soda (lye) to get rid of all the oil but I need to know that there is nothing in there that is aluminum. And they said as long as you take the ends off where it is fastened to the frame of the bike, those are the only aluminum parts in the Ariel exhaust system, it was all steel. Then, at the end of the letter,
John: So, when you get a license for 125, is it age 16?
Frank: I don’t know now. It used to be. I think nowadays it might be of the same age for cars which is probably 17. I think they might have aligned them all.
John: So you probably have to be 20 years old to drive a big bike in England, then.
Frank: Probably. I have been away from it for so long, I don’t really know the truth.. It was a fashion for a rider to wear a leather jacket with the name of the bike across the back in brass studs. I remember one engineering student at my school…a weedy-looking kid. Must have been all of 5’ 4” and 110. He got this leather jacket. It has “Vincent” across the back. And he was riding a 125 Bantam. Vincent was actually his name (laughing).
D: Mr. Damp, you spent plenty of time on two wheels. Did you ever hit the ground?
Frank: Yes, I did, usually on ice. When you are doing testing of motorcycles, you can’t say…well I am not going out today; the road is slippery. You just go out and be careful. I think I came down with the Commando maybe twice or three times. When I had my Ariel 250, I had a couple of spills on that, but I have been fairly lucky. The worst one was when I had the Ariel, I was driving to work and it was very icy. I lost it, fell off. Certainly, I don’t know if a patch of ice caused me to fall off but an 18 wheeler was trying to stop before it ran me over. It was kind of interesting.
D: Did you work on your own bikes?
Frank: Yes. That’s the only way to go. If you are on an apprentice salary at $5 a week, you can’t afford to pay a mechanic.
D: What kind of work did you do on those?
Frank: Well, on a two stroke, you don’t have a right lot to do. You just basically check the spark plugs. On the Vespa, I had to strip the engine down and put a new piston in it. The wrist pin in the piston broke up. The Ariel was pretty reliable. I spent most of the repair, maintenance time on that taking the mufflers off, washing all the oil out. It was a gasoline-oil mixture that you ran. It was 16:1 oil. It smoked a bit. The previous owner called it “Smoky”, painted across the leg shields, and he was right. Anyway, I sent a letter off to Ariel’s customer support after I’d had it a while. I said “I am going to take the exhaust system off and then flush it out with caustic soda (lye) to get rid of all the oil but I need to know that there is nothing in there that is aluminum. And they said as long as you take the ends off where it is fastened to the frame of the bike, those are the only aluminum parts in the Ariel exhaust system, it was all steel. Then, at the end of the letter,
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
it said, by the way, testing has shown that 16:1 isn’t necessary, 48:1 would be quite good and if you used Bardahl, you need 54:1. (laughing). So I started buying Bardahl.
John: Did you go through a lot of spark plugs?
Frank: Yeah, They'd oil up, like nobody’s business. When you are on full throttle on that thing, it would blow smoke out behind you for nearly a mile.
Joe: You were oiling your engine and everything around you.
Frank: Probably the back tire, too. (laughs) That’s the way it was. Oil and gas mix. In fact my old boss Peter Inchley was on a 250 road racing bike in the TT in 67, he was running second with the 250 cc Villiers bike and he was running a quarter of a mile behind that guy on a Honda who was in the lead. The TT is a 37 and 3 /4 mile lap around the isle. (Isle of Man) They do three laps and I don’t not know whether you have to because it is tradition or because of the size of gas tank, but after two laps, you came in and refuel Well Pete came into the pit, the crew grabbed the container that Shell had provided, poured it into the tank, closed the tank, and he took off. He got about 200 yards ahead of the Honda that had been leading because they had stopped as well. He led the race for about 3½ miles out of the pit before his engine seized up. It turned out that Shell, in their infinite wisdom, had put a 5 gallon can of petrol oil mixture in a different pit and they gave his bike straight gas. Shell were not very popular, either with the Villiers team or the guy riding the four stroke who retired when his plugs fouled up..
John: What is the climate like for motorcycling in the Birmingham area?
Frank: Well the whole of England is kind of like it is here in western Washington. It is a little bit colder. There was a famous headline in the Telegraph: “72 again tomorrow. No relief in sight”.(laughing)
John: So the air-cooled engine made more sense in England than a lot of places.
Frank: Yes it did. The other headline in the Telegraph was “Fog in Channel, Europe isolated.” (laughing). Yeah, they had some funny ideas.
Joe: Well if you looked at the maps, England was the centre of the earth. Everything else was all around it
.
Frank: When they colored international boundaries, England was red, so was the English Empire and if you look at a map from the 1920s, over half of it was red, a lot of Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
John: This friend of mine got a letter from Queen Elizabeth thanking her for being an ordinary citizen. She was in the British Foreign Service and quite a few different… not real fun places and she got a letter from Queen Elizabeth which she has hanging on her wall, thanking her for being an ordinary citizen (everyone laughs)
John: Did you go through a lot of spark plugs?
Frank: Yeah, They'd oil up, like nobody’s business. When you are on full throttle on that thing, it would blow smoke out behind you for nearly a mile.
Joe: You were oiling your engine and everything around you.
Frank: Probably the back tire, too. (laughs) That’s the way it was. Oil and gas mix. In fact my old boss Peter Inchley was on a 250 road racing bike in the TT in 67, he was running second with the 250 cc Villiers bike and he was running a quarter of a mile behind that guy on a Honda who was in the lead. The TT is a 37 and 3 /4 mile lap around the isle. (Isle of Man) They do three laps and I don’t not know whether you have to because it is tradition or because of the size of gas tank, but after two laps, you came in and refuel Well Pete came into the pit, the crew grabbed the container that Shell had provided, poured it into the tank, closed the tank, and he took off. He got about 200 yards ahead of the Honda that had been leading because they had stopped as well. He led the race for about 3½ miles out of the pit before his engine seized up. It turned out that Shell, in their infinite wisdom, had put a 5 gallon can of petrol oil mixture in a different pit and they gave his bike straight gas. Shell were not very popular, either with the Villiers team or the guy riding the four stroke who retired when his plugs fouled up..
John: What is the climate like for motorcycling in the Birmingham area?
Frank: Well the whole of England is kind of like it is here in western Washington. It is a little bit colder. There was a famous headline in the Telegraph: “72 again tomorrow. No relief in sight”.(laughing)
John: So the air-cooled engine made more sense in England than a lot of places.
Frank: Yes it did. The other headline in the Telegraph was “Fog in Channel, Europe isolated.” (laughing). Yeah, they had some funny ideas.
Joe: Well if you looked at the maps, England was the centre of the earth. Everything else was all around it
.
Frank: When they colored international boundaries, England was red, so was the English Empire and if you look at a map from the 1920s, over half of it was red, a lot of Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
John: This friend of mine got a letter from Queen Elizabeth thanking her for being an ordinary citizen. She was in the British Foreign Service and quite a few different… not real fun places and she got a letter from Queen Elizabeth which she has hanging on her wall, thanking her for being an ordinary citizen (everyone laughs)
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 131
Frank: You know there were some definitely different attitudes to the world back then. The eldest son inherited the family fortunes and the younger siblings did not get a nickel when you died. So usually the eldest son either went into the clergy or went into the military as a career and the younger kids all went off to jobs in the empire, because that was the only way you could make money. So there were a lot of expat groups in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. Their families were started by the younger siblings.
John : My friend , it’s legal for her to sign her name MBE. You know what that means? It is Member of the British Empire. It is legal for her to sign her name.(laughs)
Frank: There is actually a medal called OBE, that is Order of the British Empire. You got to do something good. A friend of mine had got that. He worked at one of the machine tool companies. He translated the “OBE” as Other Bastards' Efforts
D: Will the British rise again?
Frank: Maybe, if they pull out of the common market, there is chance. When Clinton was in power he formed the North American Free Trade Area, I think it was. He invited the British Prime Minister to join. He said we will put you guys and Iceland in and call it the North Atlantic Free Trade Organization. You don’t have to join into the European common market. Whoever was the Prime Minister at the time declined. There is much more in common between America and the UK than there is between the UK and rest of Europe.
D: Would you ever go back to Europe. You have been an expat now for 50 years?
Frank: No, I would not go back there to live.
John: Does England consider herself part of the Europe?
Frank: Nowadays most people would consider themselves to be part of Europe. The people of my age and older do not.
Joe: You did not adapt to Europe?
Frank: No. The UK did not adapt totally….well, they adapted most metric measures, but they still have the mile for distances and the still have the pint.
D: What about the stone?
Frank: Oh, now that is long gone. That is how you used to tell people and if somebody would say… “How heavy are you?” You say, I am 8 stone 4. And they knew what you meant. In fact my sister has a digital bathroom scale. I was weighing a suitcase before we came back to make sure I would not go over the airline weight. It looked like it was decimal 8.12. No way, this thing only weighs 8 pounds, so I looked down at the back side and I found there is a switch to switch to kilograms. . So I switched it to kilos, put
John : My friend , it’s legal for her to sign her name MBE. You know what that means? It is Member of the British Empire. It is legal for her to sign her name.(laughs)
Frank: There is actually a medal called OBE, that is Order of the British Empire. You got to do something good. A friend of mine had got that. He worked at one of the machine tool companies. He translated the “OBE” as Other Bastards' Efforts
D: Will the British rise again?
Frank: Maybe, if they pull out of the common market, there is chance. When Clinton was in power he formed the North American Free Trade Area, I think it was. He invited the British Prime Minister to join. He said we will put you guys and Iceland in and call it the North Atlantic Free Trade Organization. You don’t have to join into the European common market. Whoever was the Prime Minister at the time declined. There is much more in common between America and the UK than there is between the UK and rest of Europe.
D: Would you ever go back to Europe. You have been an expat now for 50 years?
Frank: No, I would not go back there to live.
John: Does England consider herself part of the Europe?
Frank: Nowadays most people would consider themselves to be part of Europe. The people of my age and older do not.
Joe: You did not adapt to Europe?
Frank: No. The UK did not adapt totally….well, they adapted most metric measures, but they still have the mile for distances and the still have the pint.
D: What about the stone?
Frank: Oh, now that is long gone. That is how you used to tell people and if somebody would say… “How heavy are you?” You say, I am 8 stone 4. And they knew what you meant. In fact my sister has a digital bathroom scale. I was weighing a suitcase before we came back to make sure I would not go over the airline weight. It looked like it was decimal 8.12. No way, this thing only weighs 8 pounds, so I looked down at the back side and I found there is a switch to switch to kilograms. . So I switched it to kilos, put
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the suitcase on in it and it weighed what I expected it to weigh in kilos. So I asked my sister, “What was this 8 something? Well that’s stones and pounds”. They did not actually have a position on that selector switch to put it in straight pounds.
D: I have heard that the British tax system in the 50’s caused the evolution of British motors to be completely different from the rest of the world. They taxed the bore size instead of the cubic inches and so the British were hampered in horsepower.
Frank: Yeah, very long stroke/small bore engines.
D: Do you believe that was due to the tax system?
Frank: The tax was based on what they called horsepower which had absolutely nothing to do with horsepower. It was the cylinder bore squared times the number of cylinders. My first car was an Austin 7 with 7 horse power. In actual fact, it was a 4 cylinder L-head which probably produced about 35 brake horsepower, but it was a 7 as far as the tax system was concerned. There was another Austin called the “Big 7” which was actually a 1 liter engine, but it was the same bore and number of cylinders as the one I had.
John: One of the Norton motorcycles was called the Big 4, single cylinder. Why did they call it the Big 4 when there is only a single cylinder flat head, around 600 cc?
Frank: It might have had the 4 horsepower engine
John: Because of the bore and the tax system?
Frank: Yeah, they dropped that in 50s
John: That Norton catalog that I gave you, it talks about Big 4 which is a single-cylinder flathead and about roughly 600 cc?
Frank: Yeah, it was a single-cylinder 600 cc, 4 horsepower, probably about right under the old taxes.
John: They give the horsepower in here, a 350 is making about 3‑1/2 horse and the 500s are making 4 and 4 ½ horse, but that is strictly on the tax system?
Frank: No, if they say it is making that power, that’s probably actual brake horsepower, but I think it's the tax-based system number.
John: But they also talk about their factory racers were doing a 110 miles an hour for an hour straight, you know, back in 1932?
Frank: They were probably up around 35 or 40 HP, at least in those days. Of course they were on those skinny old tires.
D: I have heard that the British tax system in the 50’s caused the evolution of British motors to be completely different from the rest of the world. They taxed the bore size instead of the cubic inches and so the British were hampered in horsepower.
Frank: Yeah, very long stroke/small bore engines.
D: Do you believe that was due to the tax system?
Frank: The tax was based on what they called horsepower which had absolutely nothing to do with horsepower. It was the cylinder bore squared times the number of cylinders. My first car was an Austin 7 with 7 horse power. In actual fact, it was a 4 cylinder L-head which probably produced about 35 brake horsepower, but it was a 7 as far as the tax system was concerned. There was another Austin called the “Big 7” which was actually a 1 liter engine, but it was the same bore and number of cylinders as the one I had.
John: One of the Norton motorcycles was called the Big 4, single cylinder. Why did they call it the Big 4 when there is only a single cylinder flat head, around 600 cc?
Frank: It might have had the 4 horsepower engine
John: Because of the bore and the tax system?
Frank: Yeah, they dropped that in 50s
John: That Norton catalog that I gave you, it talks about Big 4 which is a single-cylinder flathead and about roughly 600 cc?
Frank: Yeah, it was a single-cylinder 600 cc, 4 horsepower, probably about right under the old taxes.
John: They give the horsepower in here, a 350 is making about 3‑1/2 horse and the 500s are making 4 and 4 ½ horse, but that is strictly on the tax system?
Frank: No, if they say it is making that power, that’s probably actual brake horsepower, but I think it's the tax-based system number.
John: But they also talk about their factory racers were doing a 110 miles an hour for an hour straight, you know, back in 1932?
Frank: They were probably up around 35 or 40 HP, at least in those days. Of course they were on those skinny old tires.
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D: So, when they say 490 cc Norton overhead cam, single cylinder, putting out 4½ horsepower, is that real?
Frank: No, that’s not real. If it is an overhead cam 600, it is probably putting out at least 30 or 35 max. They marketed it as 4 horsepower because that’s how people understood from the horsepower ratings for tax purposes. They knew what to expect, but it was a hell lot more than 4 brake horsepower.
D: There is an old saying that power to tax is the power to destroy. And I kind of wonder if the British tax system held the motor industry back.
Frank: It did until maybe the early 1950s when that tax system was dropped, because like I said that the Austin 7 I had was a fairly short stroke, it was an L-head, side valve engine and it wasn’t particularly powerful, but it was hell a lot more than 7 horsepower.
John: One thing I’m curious about it, how fast did the cars go in England, generally speaking when somebody drove their car, how fast would they go?
Frank: You wouldn’t be doing much over 50 very often.
D: Lucas- The prince of darkness
Frank: They said that over there, too. Norton had to buy wiring harness system from Lucas as they were the only people who made them. I tried persuade our boss to bring the wiring harness manufacture in-house.
D: So you think there are weaknesses? What would those have been in Lucas?
Frank: Well, poor quality control, they had almost a monopoly, there was nobody else doing a lot of the things they did. I tried to get Norton to buy from one of the European manufacturers.
D: A wiring loom with some bullets at each end and a few connectors. What would have been the quality problem?
Frank: They were mis-wired. They got the colors wrong. The bullets were soldered on. We did not have crimps in those days.
D: Do you think there is a problem with using solder in a vibrating motorcycle on an electrical wire.
Frank: Not if you do it right. I personally prefer to see threaded connectors where you put a soldered wire onto the head of a screw and tie it down, rather than plugging them together with the bullet connectors, but that is something you can do if you are building a bike yourself. It is not something that you could do if you are making a production
Frank: No, that’s not real. If it is an overhead cam 600, it is probably putting out at least 30 or 35 max. They marketed it as 4 horsepower because that’s how people understood from the horsepower ratings for tax purposes. They knew what to expect, but it was a hell lot more than 4 brake horsepower.
D: There is an old saying that power to tax is the power to destroy. And I kind of wonder if the British tax system held the motor industry back.
Frank: It did until maybe the early 1950s when that tax system was dropped, because like I said that the Austin 7 I had was a fairly short stroke, it was an L-head, side valve engine and it wasn’t particularly powerful, but it was hell a lot more than 7 horsepower.
John: One thing I’m curious about it, how fast did the cars go in England, generally speaking when somebody drove their car, how fast would they go?
Frank: You wouldn’t be doing much over 50 very often.
D: Lucas- The prince of darkness
Frank: They said that over there, too. Norton had to buy wiring harness system from Lucas as they were the only people who made them. I tried persuade our boss to bring the wiring harness manufacture in-house.
D: So you think there are weaknesses? What would those have been in Lucas?
Frank: Well, poor quality control, they had almost a monopoly, there was nobody else doing a lot of the things they did. I tried to get Norton to buy from one of the European manufacturers.
D: A wiring loom with some bullets at each end and a few connectors. What would have been the quality problem?
Frank: They were mis-wired. They got the colors wrong. The bullets were soldered on. We did not have crimps in those days.
D: Do you think there is a problem with using solder in a vibrating motorcycle on an electrical wire.
Frank: Not if you do it right. I personally prefer to see threaded connectors where you put a soldered wire onto the head of a screw and tie it down, rather than plugging them together with the bullet connectors, but that is something you can do if you are building a bike yourself. It is not something that you could do if you are making a production
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machine. You just spend just too long messing about it The big problem with electrical systems, then,was the efficiency. You know, they had carbon brushes in the generators. There were fairly soft carbon, so they did not last very long. They weren’t very well made.
Joe: A lot had to do with the smoke leaking out of the wire at the connectors.
Frank: If your wire smoked, you definitely had a problem. (Laughs). Even Ford had problems with their wiring, because they were buying stuff from Lucas as well. I don’t think they bought their wiring harnesses. But they had Lucas headlamps.
Joe: Did you ever ride a Brough?
Frank: No.
Joe: The oldest bike I ever rode was a Sixteen 1946 model.
Frank: I guess my oldest was the A7. It was a 53. We did not ride other people’s bikes that often. You kept it to yourself. You often did not have insurance to cover anybody else riding it. It is still that way with cars. You can save a hell of a lot if you just say, I am the only guy who is going to ride it.
D: You know, in the state of Washington, you don’t have to have motor cycle insurance?
Frank: Really?
John I got insurance on a Honda 50. It costs me 3 dollars a year for insurance on it. (laughs)
Frank: That 58 Vespa was my first motorized vehicle. That was when I was just coming up, 17. I could not drive a car till I was 18.
D: Would you like to drive a Commando? We could arrange that.
Frank: I do not think I’d dare any more, to be honest.
Joe: It is like a bicycle. You never forget.
Frank: For me, the problem is that you're on the “wrong” side of the street. I've never ridden on the in the US. I have not ridden at all since about 2 years after we got here. Friend of mine at Boeing was into trail riding and I went out on one of his two bikes a couple of times. We’d go over to eastern Washington somewhere around Mattawa.
Joe: If you ever get down to Seattle on the second Thursday of the month, you’re invited to the monthly Northwest Norton Owners meeting which is our club. They might even have beer. And if you are there, you might even get your beer free.
This is the end of the interview
Joe: A lot had to do with the smoke leaking out of the wire at the connectors.
Frank: If your wire smoked, you definitely had a problem. (Laughs). Even Ford had problems with their wiring, because they were buying stuff from Lucas as well. I don’t think they bought their wiring harnesses. But they had Lucas headlamps.
Joe: Did you ever ride a Brough?
Frank: No.
Joe: The oldest bike I ever rode was a Sixteen 1946 model.
Frank: I guess my oldest was the A7. It was a 53. We did not ride other people’s bikes that often. You kept it to yourself. You often did not have insurance to cover anybody else riding it. It is still that way with cars. You can save a hell of a lot if you just say, I am the only guy who is going to ride it.
D: You know, in the state of Washington, you don’t have to have motor cycle insurance?
Frank: Really?
John I got insurance on a Honda 50. It costs me 3 dollars a year for insurance on it. (laughs)
Frank: That 58 Vespa was my first motorized vehicle. That was when I was just coming up, 17. I could not drive a car till I was 18.
D: Would you like to drive a Commando? We could arrange that.
Frank: I do not think I’d dare any more, to be honest.
Joe: It is like a bicycle. You never forget.
Frank: For me, the problem is that you're on the “wrong” side of the street. I've never ridden on the in the US. I have not ridden at all since about 2 years after we got here. Friend of mine at Boeing was into trail riding and I went out on one of his two bikes a couple of times. We’d go over to eastern Washington somewhere around Mattawa.
Joe: If you ever get down to Seattle on the second Thursday of the month, you’re invited to the monthly Northwest Norton Owners meeting which is our club. They might even have beer. And if you are there, you might even get your beer free.
This is the end of the interview
Hortons Norton
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Thanks it was fun to read.
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Thanks Douglas. A good read.
Dereck
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