Food Study

The brocolli I bought today cried with emotional stress when I heated up the saucepan water, said it identified as a rib-eye steak ...
no problem I said I'm all for inclusivity so I dug out the barbeque instead.

This is the most political post on this forum!

I eat anything and EVERYTHING except okra and oysters...

I have 12% body fat and have been 145# for 20+ years, with no medical issues whatsoever (now age 66)

texasSlick said:

Do vegans kill the plants before they eat them, or do they eat them alive?

Slick

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Only Fruitarians eat formerly alive plant-based foodstuff that has died and fallen from it's plant of origin. While the seeds within are still viable creatures, they do spit them out and provide for their nutrition and growth with a nominal chant and ceremony acknowledging the donation of the plant's consumable mass for continued human sustenance.

Better for the planets sustainability to give the seeds a full transit in a ready made growth medium .... farmers do a similar thing already - might be eco friendly in some ways but certainly not socially acceptable unless wild camping accompanied by a digging implement.

What about yeast? It is a living organism and contributes greatly to mans wellbeing when it is used in the brewing of beer, yet it mercilessly murdered when the brew is brewed. As a matter of principle, vegetarians should also be teetotallers.

Strangely, I have not yet met a veggie who understands my point of view...

If there were no cows, they would be replaced by another herbivore that would inherit their ecosystem and consume the available plant matter, probably farting just as much as any cows. Living things that are edible give rise to living things that EAT THEM... That's a natural thing.

And the moral outrage of consuming animal life versus consuming plant life ignores that plants are also a living thing, and for all we know also sentient in a way that we can't understand. If we send some probe to another planet and it finds something similar to our plant life, the headline will read, "Life found on another planet" The moral transfer comes from you looking at it, and seeing it has eyes too so it's easy to imagine it's alive because it also looks at back at them... or at the lion about to eat them or a myriad of other predators.

It's a circular argument with no agreeable conclusion, as is the case with almost everything including various aspects of Norton Commandos!

I eat too much meat, fish and veggies as well fruit and dairy products, as well I drink a lot of brew tea in a pot, I drink too much beer and love a Jim Bean or 2, life is pretty good really, am I going to change, I don't think so, but I have cut back on how much I eat each meal and a lot of my veggies I eat raw or just steamed a little, and one of my favorite onion and cabbage gravy over the top of a good steak or any meat for that matter.

Our old local land fill (dump) closed over 30 years ago but they built a small power station on the site and its runs off the methane gas that the old site products, look at all the sh it in the world going to waste, methane gas is another source of fuel and farmers are growing better as well more healthier crops using poo, changing from chemical base fertilizers, so many things can be put to better use but the fuel industry and Gov make too much money off oil and will stop anyone with crack pot ideas, but times are changing slowly.

As for my earlier comment about human teeth not design for eating meat, I was just quoting what a dentist told me when I was a young kid sitting in his chair getting a few young teeth fixed up, I was terrified of dentist when I was a young lad growing up and what he said has always stuck in my head while he was drilling for oil lol, but I eat what I grew up with, but the way I cook is a lot better than how my mum cooked back then, every veggies were boiled and over boiled, even my wife cooked like her mother, everything over cooked, but I started cooking at an early age when my mum past away when I was 14 years old, I had to grow up real fast.

FWIW........ I read a paper in Scientific American way back in the 70's where researchers took two similar plots of land in Africa, side by side, fenced them in and put cows on one plot and indigenous grazing animals on the other. It was found the indigenous grazing animals produced more pounds of meat per acre than cows on a sustainable basis. From what I remember, the indigenous animals produced several times more pounds per acre than cows.
Eat more kudus and gazelles. This justifies hunting, but the anti hunting cabal will never admit it.

Slick

Eat more tacos. It's not meat, it's a taco!

I went to the grocery store Monday evening. As an experiment I got things to be a one-day vegetarian. So yesterday, I ate pinto beans, bananas, apples, broccoli, almonds, lettuce, celery, vinegar & oil.

Trust me, today, cows have nothing on me in the fart department! It would be a bad day to visit me!

There have been comments about politics in this thread. I did not intend for this thread to be political and was not looking for a conclusion.

It is about half-assed science which provided incomplete statistics. As I said to start with: "I'm sure most of it is true, but still a bit annoying when the whole story is not told." This part provides complete (unless they are lying) info: "In addition, those who most closely followed the planetary diet had a 28% lower risk of neurodegenerative mortality, a 14% lower risk of dying from cardiovascular disease, a 10% lower risk of dying from cancer and a 47% lower risk of dying from a respiratory disease, which applied to nonsmokers as well, Willett said." But, they half-assed the fart statistics to support the "planetary diet" stuff - and left out completely that "planetary diet" is quite close to the mediterranean diet and that the benefits are likely about the same with either.

Politics can be brought into just about anything today. I do not know what world-wide political parties are for or against this study or studies like it. In the US, we have two parties, and they usually insist on being polar opposites. Much of the world is different and have no or many political parties.

Also, I'm guessing that people in the SW of the US are likely to be for eating more domestic meat and people in the NE less so due to local economics, not politics.

To me, this is NOT a political issue, it's a scientific issue. Yes, there are groups that will try to use the study for what they believe and/or against what others believe, but IMHO, it is not complete enough for any reasonable group to use to "change the world".

marshg246 said:

There have been comments about politics in this thread. I did not intend for this thread to be political and was not looking for a conclusion.

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I understood your premise, I was just decrying what has become "political" in some people's reasoning.

I don't use emoticons, so i'm often sadly misunderestimated...

Jeff Bezos is pouring billions into lab grown meat. More appetizing than bug based meat, I am sure, but neither comes close to that offered by MikeG post number 15.

I'll take my rib eye medium rare, with a bottle of Barolo, and 2 glasses, if you please, with sautéed mushrooms on the side.

Slick

marshg246 said:

So, using the best numbers I can find, cows worldwide eat between 10B and 30B pounds of digestible vegetable matter per day. Humans, if no longer eating animals would be eating 12B and 20B pounds of digestible vegetable matter per day. Of course, people eat other animals as well. In the stores around me, the beef sections are tiny/ Pork is the largest section followed by chicken. I certainly don't buy a small piece of beef for $22 when that money will buy three days worth of pork or chicken. On the other hand, humans eating only vegetables will still require protein and vegetables high in protein cause way more gas than grass.

Whether your right or wrong or in the middle, the point was that the report did not cover the subject. If you're going to give facts on one side of an issue, it's simply politics when you don't give facts on the other side. My point remains: "I'm sure most of it is true, but still a bit annoying when the whole story is not told."

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I agree with your point, but to quote from https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/explore-how-farmers-produce-food-sustainably/0/steps/60787#:~:text=If we consider the feed,kg of lamb [15] :

If we consider the feed conversion efficiency, which measures the amount of feed needed to produce 1 kg of meat, on average:

• 7.7 kg of feed is needed to produce 1 kg of beef,
• 6.3 kg of feed is needed to produce 1 kg of lamb

On another point of view, does a vegetarians mouth water when looking at a freshly cut lawn ?

^^^ Before I hard landscaped and astro turfed my lawn I'd have welcomed a swarm of veggies descending to save some back breaking work when cutting and disposing of a lot of grass .... Lol !

From an UK perspective Lamb is a quite lot more expensive than Beef and generally you are buying a LOT of bone and fat unlike the bovine option.

Only time I buy Lamb is when Welsh Lamb is in season ( much tastier than imported stuff ) so just a small portion of the year.

I wonder if any scientists / researchers have done a relative study on the amount of gas produced by sheep and cows ?

Maybe we should turn to eating rats, they breed like crazy and if farmed " free range " they wouldn't cost anything to feed.
The difficulty would be to get them to return home to the farm for the culling season .... LOL !!

How do you know if someone is a vegan?

Wait 5 minutes and they will tell you


Anyway, humans have both canine (cutting teeth) and molars (grinding teeth. We are omnivores and are designed to eat everything, meat, veggies etc. it is our relatively recent diet that has given the normal overbite as we don’t need to tear our food to eat it.

I’d happily consider a vegetarian diet, provided I could have a slice of ham with it, or sausages, or steak.

Vegan-vee'gan-noun- derived from the old native American Mohawk language meaning "poor hunter" or "lousey shot". Other versions exist throughout native American language and culture, but like everything else, the descendants of European settlers have appropriated the word and twisted its meaning to suit their own sensibilities .

SteveBorland said:

I agree with your point, but to quote from https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/explore-how-farmers-produce-food-sustainably/0/steps/60787#:~:text=If we consider the feed,kg of lamb [15] :

If we consider the feed conversion efficiency, which measures the amount of feed needed to produce 1 kg of meat, on average:

• 7.7 kg of feed is needed to produce 1 kg of beef,
• 6.3 kg of feed is needed to produce 1 kg of lamb

On another point of view, does a vegetarians mouth water when looking at a freshly cut lawn ?

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This adds to my basic point! Two numbers provided and the rest is "more" or "less". Again, probably true but I really didn't learn anything I would repeat in a crowd!

A while back, I read study on the good and bad of farm raised fish and the difference in how AU does it and others. Can't find it now. It talked about wild caught, land-based farming, coastal-based farming, and ocean-based farming. If you search, you'll find LOTs of articles being for or against each type with usually with one-sided or at least slanted statistics. The one I read was balanced and tipped towards open ocean farming overall but with caveats that it was the most likely to have occasional losses due to storms. After reading you felt informed, not directed to some group think.

Veganism is as much a religion as any other.