Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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JimC said:
The hang up is Jim Comstock’s summation of the GTX: “Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes.”

It may seem to be sacreligious to some, but I disagree with Jim’s summation. No way would I consider an oil that produces high heat, high friction and oxidizes quickly as excellent protection. Or a great choice.
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No matter who agrees or not with Jim's summation of all the oils, it is a controlled test on a test bed. The real answer lies in backing up Jim's findings with road tests in different climates. Jim's results give an increased confidence to say what oil should be good for a Norton twin, to get total confidence in Jim's results needs the road testing, with oil analysis to confirm his findings. One or two of the oils may have achieved this stage.

If the best scoring oil in Jim's test is used in the wrong climate it may not get hot enough to remove the moisture in it, and thus may lead to other issues like corrosion. I ride through the winter in the UK and the full synthetic I used hardly got hot riding to work the other side of the county, having had the engine apart recently there was thankfully, no evidence of corrosion.

The excellent work Jim has done has narrowed the options and weeded out oils that should not be used, and give us a greater confidence in using certain oils.
 
The Castrol GTX would not be a good choice for me.

But it is not a light duty oil by any means. I ended up having to up my pressure testers ability and up the temp to get a scar from it.
It is tough stuff.

And I would still say it is a reasonable choice for cooler climates and short trips. 10 mile commutes on a cool morning is a bad thing for oil. The extra heat of the GTX would be just the ticket.
 
Redline 60 is on the lineup for today, but if the previous unreliable tests mean anything, I expect it will be trounced by Torco 60 which is also in the lineup today.

Edit, Amzoil 60 is in line for today, not Redline, it is still "in the mail"
I have no previous experience with the Redline race oil.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Regarding the GTX debate, I note Jim’s actual comment:

“Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes”.

Frankly, that sums up a LOT of Norton owners. So actually, GTX is a great choice for a great number of owners.

I won’t be using it personally, I’ll still wait to find the best oil I can as I’m firmly in the “expensive oil is cheap insurance” camp.
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I would say that sums up the majority of Norton owners.
One thing that we don't know is, if it is a choice between high film strength and low friction, which is most important?
It may be that 257 lb film strength GTX would have saved my friends Vincent Comet and BSA Gold Flash from destruction, or would a low friction oil with half the film strength have been the ticket?

Glen
 
MexicoMike said:
Yep! I think it would be a good idea to move all of Jim's test results to a separate, locked thread where only he could post results without comments from the rest of us. I don't know if that's possible or not but that way, Jim's test info would be free of extraneous discussion. We can always continue here or start a new thread periodically as necessary to debate choosing oil by test, personal experience, or cool name. ;)
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Great idea !
 
worntorn said:
I would say that sums up the majority of Norton owners.
One thing that we don't know is, if it is a choice between high film strength and low friction, which is most important?
It may be that 257 lb film strength GTX would have saved my friends Vincent Comet and BSA Gold Flash from destruction, or would a low friction oil with half the film strength have been the ticket?

Glen
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I think you need to get those guys to repeat there experiences a couple times each with different oils so we can find out.;)
Personally I would go for the low friction oil with a little less film strength.
 
worntorn said:
I would say that sums up the majority of Norton owners.
One thing that we don't know is, if it is a choice between high film strength and low friction, which is most important?
It may be that 257 lb film strength GTX would have saved my friends Vincent Comet and BSA Gold Flash from destruction, or would a low friction oil with half the film strength have been the ticket?

Glen
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I don’t know, but I’d wager the GTX would have been fried into a useless goop !

There’s a technical answer for you!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Maybe you’re like me Jagbruno, I’d really like to standardise and have ONE oil in stock for all my bikes.

That means both dry and wet clutches...
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I used to think like that but these days I have up to 5 different 'engine' oils around the place! A couple of them even say GTX on the jug but are different.

And then there is the 25 litre drum of straight 40 mineral, now reserved for things of '50s vintage that don't get hard usage!
 
comnoz said:
The Castrol GTX would not be a good choice for me.

But it is not a light duty oil by any means. I ended up having to up my pressure testers ability and up the temp to get a scar from it.
It is tough stuff.

And I would still say it is a reasonable choice for cooler climates and short trips. 10 mile commutes on a cool morning is a bad thing for oil. The extra heat of the GTX would be just the ticket.
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I might not use it in my Nortons as they get used pretty hard in the Mountains now and then, so I will likely opt for one of your lower friction choices.
The Vincent twins get all kinds of hard use however the big worry with them is getting some heat in the oil before high Rev/ hard climb use. The oil tends to take forever to heat up. It's an engine with a lot more cooling capacity than a Commando.
Might try the GTX in the twins.

Glen
 
Fast Eddie said:
IF... we knew what load figure was ‘appropriate’ then we could look for an oil that matched that whilst minimising heat and friction.
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comnoz said:
For use in a moderately tuned street performance Norton I would suggest a minimum load capacity of 150 lbs. Low friction is a plus, particularly in warm climates.
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Unfortunately, I had bought a whack of RP XPR based on the first round of tests and since I need to change out my current M1 Vtwin.

Royal_Purple_XPR_20W50
137 lbs load
322 degree follower temp
No cooling needed
Very low friction and very little heat produced
OK for Norton
Not OK for wet clutches
 
Here are four more oils

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Amzoil_Motorcycle_SAE_60
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

143 lbs load
No data for heat from high pressure shear
1.32 heat from friction
Medium friction
There are better choices around for a Norton

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Castrol_Power_1_V-Twin_20W50_4T
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

148 lbs load
No data for heat from high pressure shear
.952 heat from friction
Low friction and heat

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Torco_TR-1_20W50
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

164 lbs load
1.70 heat from high pressure shear
.021 heat from friction
Low friction
I have used this in a Norton with good results. It has a long history of service in pushrod motors.

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Torco_TR-1_SAE60
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

180 lbs load
1.45 heat from high pressure shear
.528 heat from friction
Low friction
 
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Just about the time I thought I had seen the toughest oil there was, I came upon this one.
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Bel_Ray_EXP_20W50_4T_Synthetic_Ester_Blend
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

400 lbs + load -no failure
3.784 heat from high pressure shear
1.99 heat from friction
Medium heat from friction

I stopped this test at 400 lbs load because the oil and follower temps were getting scary.
The follower did not scar, even at this temp and pressure.
And the oil still looks like oil.
The heat from friction is a little higher than I would like, but by the time the heat got out of control, any of the previous oils would have failed, cooled off and be in the dump bucket.

Safe for wet clutches.

Once my new engine is broken in, I will likely be trying this oil -with an eye on the temp gauge. Of course I still have a lot of different oils to test....
 
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Wow Jim the Bel Ray looks good!

It prompted me to check out their offerings, are you aware that they do an EXS range which is a full Ester base, whereas the EXP is an Ester blend?

It would be very interesting to see if their EXS is even better. Any chance of testing some?
 
Onder said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bel-Ray-...872797&hash=item33f469dc3d:g:CXIAAOSwGV9boVdD

For those on the UK side that is about 55 quid for 4L. If it is good as it appears Id say a reasonable fee to ride with less worry.
What is the change time/distance?
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Well, this actually available in the U.K. and is cheaper than that, but it’s 15w-50, don’t know what difference that would make: https://www.rapid-moto.com/exp-syn-est-bld-4t-e-o-15w-50-4l.html

But I like the look of this as it’s not ‘blended’: https://www.rapid-moto.com/exs-syn-est-4t-eng-oil-10w-50-4l.html

And then I found this, not blended and a 10w-60: https://www.rapid-moto.com/works-thumper-syn-est-4t-10w-50-4l-4385.html
 
I have some of the 10-60 thumper oil on the way.
Since it's full ester oil it is probably lower friction.
Bel Ray says 3000 mile change intervals in a bike with a 3 qt capacity and non-shared oil.
If the EXS is as tough as the EXP, it could be a real winner!
 
Years ago, a Dutch motorcycle magazine did a friction test with different brands of oil, and the Belray EXP 20W50 came out as one of the best.
I used this oil ever since in the Commando, and when I recently had the cylinder off, I noticed that the cams and camfollowers were still in excellent shape after a fairly high mileage.
 
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