Feckin cold

marshg246 said:
Move south - we're sweating them off. Fired up the AC last night - 83F in the house and expecting at least 90F today.

You Britts need to remember you're closer to the Artic circle than you are to where the majority of the people of the world live! When I lived in Stuttgart, it was more northern that any part of the US other than Alaska. The southern most part of England is more northern than any part of the US other than Alaska.

There has been plenty of climate change in Virginia since I've lived here. Some of it good. In the 70s if you were outside in Washington DC from July-September you were breathing terrible air. Along came the pollution controls we all hated. Fast forward to 2000 and terrible air days didn't happen often. However, bad air days are on the rise again. There is no industry or farming in the Washington DC metro area - it's all pollution from cars and people - if nothing were done long ago it would not be possible to breath outdoors here and hard to breathe indoors.

BTW, one prevailing theory of what caused the last ice age was global warming! Of course, it takes thousands of years - not happening in this century!

US Highway 50 goes from coast to coast (3072 miles). It is mostly asphalt. It is approximately 800 million surface square feet. During the day when the sun is shining the air temperature above the road is about 20F hotter than the surrounding air. Partly due to car exhaust and partly do heating from the black asphalt. That's one road. Over all, the US has around 709 billon surface square feet of asphalt - all heating the air.

IMHO, the world isn't ending soon like the climate crazies would have you believe, but you're loonytoons if you think there are no climate-related issues.
Click to expand...
I think us Brits do remember how close we are to the arctic circle
But thanks for the reminder
There has always been climate change there's no dispute about that
It's just that lately the crazies have latched onto it
 
baz said:
I think us Brits do remember how close we are to the arctic circle
But thanks for the reminder
There has always been climate change there's no dispute about that
It's just that lately the crazies have latched onto it
Click to expand...
Interesting.

Can you please reference your source that current climatic change is similar to typical climate change patterns in the geological record ?

The Geological Society of London for example does not support that view. Where is your evidence recorded please?

My own geological qualifications are as follows. BSc Hons, MSc , three seasons in Antarctica, 39 years experience as an exploration and development geologist. I personally know geologists who have worked on Antarctic ice cores.

I am unable to find any research support your view and would be very interested to read it.

The Geol Soc of London Statement is as follows. : I have copied only the first paragraph of the summary but the full paper is available on line.

Geological Society of London Scientific Statement: what the geological record tells us about our present and future climate​


Authors: Caroline H. Lear https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7533-4430 Learc@cardiff.ac.uk, Pallavi Anand, Tom Blenkinsop, Gavin L. Foster, Mary Gagen, Babette Hoogakker, Robert D. Larter, … + …, and Jan Zalasiewicz… + …AUTHORS INFO & AFFILIATIONS
Publication: Journal of the Geological Society
Volume 178
https://doi.org/10.1144/jgs2020-239



PDF/EPUB

Executive Statement​

Geology is the science of how the Earth functions and has evolved and, as such, it can contribute to our understanding of the climate system and how it responds to the addition of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere and oceans. Observations from the geological record show that atmospheric CO2 concentrations are now at their highest levels in at least the past 3 million years. Furthermore, the current speed of human-induced CO2 change and warming is nearly without precedent in the entire geological record, with the only known exception being the instantaneous, meteorite-induced event that caused the extinction of non-bird-like dinosaurs 66 million years ago. In short, whilst atmospheric CO2 concentrations have varied dramatically during the geological past due to natural processes, and have often been higher than today, the current rate of CO2 (and therefore temperature) change is unprecedented in almost the entire geological past.
 
johnm said:
Interesting.

Can you please reference your source that current climatic change is similar to typical climate change patterns in the geological record ?

The Geological Society of London for example does not support that view. Where is your evidence recorded please?

My own geological qualifications are as follows. BSc Hons, MSc , three seasons in Antarctica, 39 years experience as an exploration and development geologist. I personally know geologists who have worked on Antarctic ice cores.

I am unable to find any research support your view and would be very interested to read it.

The Geol Soc of London Statement is as follows. : I have copied only the first paragraph of the summary but the full paper is available on line.

Geological Society of London Scientific Statement: what the geological record tells us about our present and future climate​


Authors: Caroline H. Lear https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7533-4430 Learc@cardiff.ac.uk, Pallavi Anand, Tom Blenkinsop, Gavin L. Foster, Mary Gagen, Babette Hoogakker, Robert D. Larter, … + …, and Jan Zalasiewicz… + …AUTHORS INFO & AFFILIATIONS
Publication: Journal of the Geological Society
Volume 178
https://doi.org/10.1144/jgs2020-239



PDF/EPUB

Executive Statement​

Geology is the science of how the Earth functions and has evolved and, as such, it can contribute to our understanding of the climate system and how it responds to the addition of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere and oceans. Observations from the geological record show that atmospheric CO2 concentrations are now at their highest levels in at least the past 3 million years. Furthermore, the current speed of human-induced CO2 change and warming is nearly without precedent in the entire geological record, with the only known exception being the instantaneous, meteorite-induced event that caused the extinction of non-bird-like dinosaurs 66 million years ago. In short, whilst atmospheric CO2 concentrations have varied dramatically during the geological past due to natural processes, and have often been higher than today, the current rate of CO2 (and therefore temperature) change is unprecedented in almost the entire geological past.
Click to expand...
No evidence to support it whatsoever
Are you saying that the climate on earth has never changed?
 
Pretty warm in the UK today and the rain has stopped
At least it has where I am 👍👍👍👍
 
baz said:
No evidence to support it whatsoever
Are you saying that the climate on earth has never changed?
Click to expand...
Did you read the article I attached ?

Of course it has changed. Geologists can show that. I have seen and measured it myself.

But they can also show that the last time it changed like this was 66 million years ago.

If you call a once in 66 million year event normal then you sure have a different view of normal than I do.
 
johnm said:
Did you read the article I attached ?

Of course it has changed. Geologists can show that. I have seen and measured it myself.

But they can also show that the last time it changed like this was 66 million years ago.

If you call a once in 66 million year event normal then you sure have a different view of normal than I do.
Click to expand...
No I haven't read the article
I really don't have time right now
But I think we are talking cross purposes
I said there has always been" climate change " that's it , that's all
Growing up in the 70s I can remember being taught at school a new ice age is coming pretty quick
When my kids were at school they were taught the planet is burning up pretty quick
As a complete layman I'd assume there'd always been changes in the climate
 
baz said:
No I haven't read the article
I really don't have time right now
But I think we are talking cross purposes
I said there has always been" climate change " that's it , that's all
Growing up in the 70s I can remember being taught at school a new ice age is coming pretty quick
When my kids were at school they were taught the planet is burning up pretty quick
As a complete layman I'd assume there'd always been changes in the climate
Click to expand...
My response was precipitated by the " crazies " word.

And the implication the current situation was another typical climate change as identified many times before in the geological record.

But it's not typical.

And crazies like the Geological Society of London do not agree that it is "typical"

Sorry but it makes me grumpy when I see comments on the internet calling colleagues who have studied and worked in their subject for decades crazies. Especially when the persons making those comments have spent absolutely zero time or effort studying the subject.

When I know nothing about a subject I keep quiet about it.
 
johnm said:
My response was precipitated by the " crazies " word.

And the implication the current situation was another typical climate change as identified many times before in the geological record.

But it's not typical.

And crazies like the Geological Society of London do not agree that it is "typical"

Sorry but it makes me grumpy when I see comments on the internet calling colleagues who have studied and worked in their subject for decades crazies. Especially when the persons making those comments have spent absolutely zero time or effort studying the subject.

When I know nothing about a subject I keep quiet about it.
Click to expand...
Point taken although I don't remember calling your colleagues crazies
I was referring to the ones that glued their selves to the road etc etc
And also I had thought it was ok to talk about anything, whether I knew anything about it or not?
I'll say no more about it👍👍👍👍
 
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johnm said:
Interesting.

Can you please reference your source that current climatic change is similar to typical climate change patterns in the geological record ?

The Geological Society of London for example does not support that view. Where is your evidence recorded please?

My own geological qualifications are as follows. BSc Hons, MSc , three seasons in Antarctica, 39 years experience as an exploration and development geologist. I personally know geologists who have worked on Antarctic ice cores.

I am unable to find any research support your view and would be very interested to read it.

The Geol Soc of London Statement is as follows. : I have copied only the first paragraph of the summary but the full paper is available on line.

Geological Society of London Scientific Statement: what the geological record tells us about our present and future climate​


Authors: Caroline H. Lear https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7533-4430 Learc@cardiff.ac.uk, Pallavi Anand, Tom Blenkinsop, Gavin L. Foster, Mary Gagen, Babette Hoogakker, Robert D. Larter, … + …, and Jan Zalasiewicz… + …AUTHORS INFO & AFFILIATIONS
Publication: Journal of the Geological Society
Volume 178
https://doi.org/10.1144/jgs2020-239



PDF/EPUB

Executive Statement​

Geology is the science of how the Earth functions and has evolved and, as such, it can contribute to our understanding of the climate system and how it responds to the addition of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere and oceans. Observations from the geological record show that atmospheric CO2 concentrations are now at their highest levels in at least the past 3 million years. Furthermore, the current speed of human-induced CO2 change and warming is nearly without precedent in the entire geological record, with the only known exception being the instantaneous, meteorite-induced event that caused the extinction of non-bird-like dinosaurs 66 million years ago. In short, whilst atmospheric CO2 concentrations have varied dramatically during the geological past due to natural processes, and have often been higher than today, the current rate of CO2 (and therefore temperature) change is unprecedented in almost the entire geological past.
Click to expand...
I don't pretend to be an expert but here are some of the things I've read:

www.princeton.edu

What caused the ice ages? Tiny ocean fossils offer key evidence

Since the discovery that atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations were lower during past ice ages, the cause has been a mystery. Now, the fossils of ocean algae reveal that a weakening in upwelling in the Antarctic Ocean, the ocean around Antarctica, kept more CO2 in the deep ocean during...
www.princeton.edu www.princeton.edu

Discovering the Causes of the Ice Ages and Human-Caused Climate Change: a History of the Late Nineteenth and Early Twentieth Century

dash.harvard.edu dash.harvard.edu
www.livescience.com

Why Do Ice Ages Happen?

It's a little bit mysterious, especially when you throw in human-caused climate change.
www.livescience.com www.livescience.com

Will Global Warming Trigger a New Ice Age? | YaleGlobal Online

archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu
www.amnh.org

How Did the Ice Age End? A Geologist Explains | AMNH

A geologist answers this question, explaining a cycle of glacial and interglaical periods.
www.amnh.org www.amnh.org

With all your credentials you should be able to read what a layperson writes and:
1) Realize that it is not my position on ice ages - I have no position on ice ages.
2) I never said that any current warming was like any other warming in history - in fact I presented some facts that imply otherwise.
3) Know that for every tit there is a tat and nitpicking is pretty ridiculous in this instance!
4) Realize that there were actual facts presented and the ice age sentence simply states "A" possibility from my reading. There are literally thousands of articles on the web with many theories - just because the Geological Society of London (whatever that is) thinks something does not make it so.
5) AFAIK, geology is one of the involved sciences - certainly not the only one.

While in the hospital in Germany in 1998 I started writing a paper: https://gregmarsh.com/pdfdocs/tpbh.pdf

It has been at least looked at over 10k times. Not a single nitpick. I'm sure a real physics would find much of it stupid. The interesting thing is that some of the things I really expected people to give me trouble about turned out, at least in the mind of Steven Hawking to be good theory especially the "fading away" of Black Holes over time.

Twice in my life, I've been the world's authority on a subject - I am not on any of this!

The climate crazies are those assuring us the world is ending and that blocking roads will fix that.

I have relatives that assure me that the world is ending and I have relatives that assure me that God will fix it and there's nothing wrong!
 
I have relatives that believe God created the world in six days seven thousand years ago, and on the seventh day He rested. They are not scientists; neither am I but I've read widely enough to know that the archeological record goes back further than that. I'm also old enough to remember when winters in our area were colder than now.

Just wait in case the Atlantic thermocline slows or stops. Then there will be trouble. As a guy from South Africa I once knew said of apartide, "If it ends, there will be trouble. If it doesn't end, there will be trouble." He hedged his bets by exporting expensive British motorcycles to the States to get his money out of SA.

I'm tending my motorcycles figuring gasoline will get more expensive. I'm putting brakes on my Chev Suburban in case it doesn't. But I'm not betting God will swoop down and fix it all up in the nick of time, even if He did create the world in six days. Maybe the Pope can help Gretta sort it out with a well placed phone call as Joan Osborne suggested in her song "What if God Was One of Us."
 
baz said:
Point taken although I don't remember calling your colleagues crazies
I was referring to the ones that glued their selves to the road etc etc
And also I had thought it was ok to talk about anything, whether I knew anything about it or not?
I'll say no more about it👍👍👍👍
Click to expand...
Hi. Fair point. I should have considered the crazies word more in the context of the larger discussion.

In fact I agree with you regarding many of the protesters. Shouting and screaming does not advance any solutions.

Engineering and science is what is required. I get very frustrated by people who argue energy firms, industry, economies etc are all bad. I have sat across from a ardent protester who told me we could get all the electricity we need out of water. Not hydro or even fusion but by somehow putting it through a mesh and straining the electricity out of it. 🙄🙄🙄

This is the best discussion i have found about the scale of the problem and possible solutions for the UK.


It's written by a guy called David Mackay from Cambridge. Unfortunately it is a bit out of date published in 2008 because he died of cancer a few years ago.

It's very good I think.
 
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I can't talk for the rest of the world but here in Australia we live in one of the hottest, dryest countries in the world, we have long droughts, then we have long wet seasons, we suffer floods, we suffer major bush fires and in my 65 years living here nothing has really changed, we have our four seasons, we have our wet seasons some years better than other years and we have our dry seasons, where I live in S E Queensland is sub tropical further up north is the tropics and up north Queensland they record some of the highest rain falls in the whole country during the wet season from November through to March.
Back in around 2008 in Queensland we suffered one of the dryest times our major dams and water catchments got down to as low as 15% and major water restriction were brought in way before that and the state Gov was freaking out and started to build a salt water/fresh water plant then the rain came and we had 3 seasons of lot more rain we normally do and floods.
This summer just gone we also had a good wet season and our dryest part of our state out west and our Lake Aye got flooded and really that is good as our water from our state flows down to the southern states and the great Murry and Darling river systems benefit from our flood waters.
Our weather seem to go in cycles we have seasons of good wet then we have bad seasons of drought, bush fires and everything else thrown at us and this has been happening for over 40k + years when our native aussie came along and it has only been the last 100 years that records have been kept.
So really nothing has really changed we have good years and we have bad years, the tropics up north has their cyclones each year in our wet seasons.
As for these crazy climate change fools who disrupt normal people going to work to make a living by gluing themselves to major roads or what ever they do really don't do themselves any favors with the public.
But in Australia we are so far from the rest of the world down under, yes we have our problems and we have our Governments that any little change they will find a way to tax us more with stupid carbon taxes, pollution taxes, we pay the highest fuel taxes in the world, they even want to tax the farmers because the methane gases the cattle produces so really climate change is another excuse for them to get more blood out of us suckers.
But on a funny thing I remember well is my old Grandmother said to me once, we never had any problems till they started to shoot rocket into space, maybe she was right lol.

Ashley
 
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marshg246 said:
I don't pretend to be an expert but here are some of the things I've read:

www.princeton.edu

What caused the ice ages? Tiny ocean fossils offer key evidence

Since the discovery that atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations were lower during past ice ages, the cause has been a mystery. Now, the fossils of ocean algae reveal that a weakening in upwelling in the Antarctic Ocean, the ocean around Antarctica, kept more CO2 in the deep ocean during...
www.princeton.edu www.princeton.edu

Discovering the Causes of the Ice Ages and Human-Caused Climate Change: a History of the Late Nineteenth and Early Twentieth Century

dash.harvard.edu dash.harvard.edu
www.livescience.com

Why Do Ice Ages Happen?

It's a little bit mysterious, especially when you throw in human-caused climate change.
www.livescience.com www.livescience.com

Will Global Warming Trigger a New Ice Age? | YaleGlobal Online

archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu
www.amnh.org

How Did the Ice Age End? A Geologist Explains | AMNH

A geologist answers this question, explaining a cycle of glacial and interglaical periods.
www.amnh.org www.amnh.org

With all your credentials you should be able to read what a layperson writes and:
1) Realize that it is not my position on ice ages - I have no position on ice ages.
2) I never said that any current warming was like any other warming in history - in fact I presented some facts that imply otherwise.
3) Know that for every tit there is a tat and nitpicking is pretty ridiculous in this instance!
4) Realize that there were actual facts presented and the ice age sentence simply states "A" possibility from my reading. There are literally thousands of articles on the web with many theories - just because the Geological Society of London (whatever that is) thinks something does not make it so.
5) AFAIK, geology is one of the involved sciences - certainly not the only one.

While in the hospital in Germany in 1998 I started writing a paper: https://gregmarsh.com/pdfdocs/tpbh.pdf

It has been at least looked at over 10k times. Not a single nitpick. I'm sure a real physics would find much of it stupid. The interesting thing is that some of the things I really expected people to give me trouble about turned out, at least in the mind of Steven Hawking to be good theory especially the "fading away" of Black Holes over time.

Twice in my life, I've been the world's authority on a subject - I am not on any of this!

The climate crazies are those assuring us the world is ending and that blocking roads will fix that.

I have relatives that assure me that the world is ending and I have relatives that assure me that God will fix it and there's nothing wrong!
Click to expand...
Thanks for those references. It will take a bit of time to go through them but a quick glance certainly suggests they have credibility. I'll get back.


The Geological Society of London, known commonly as the Geological Society,is a learned society based in the United Kingdom. It is the oldest national geological society in the world and the largest in Europe, with more than 12,000 Fellows.

Their office and library is in Burlington House just up from Piccadilly Circus in London. In the stairwell hangs the famous "Map that changed the World" by William Smith. The first geological map ever made and a milestone in the birth of modern geology. It really is remarkable and well worth a visit if you are ever in London.

www.geolsoc.org.uk

The Geological Society of London - Visiting the William Smith Map

In our hallway hangs a copy of William Smith’s (1769-1839) map ‘A Delineation of the Strata of England and Wales, with part of Scotland, exhibiting the Collieries and Mines, the Marshes and Fenland, originally overflowed by the Sea, and varieties of soil according to the Variations in the...
www.geolsoc.org.uk www.geolsoc.org.uk
 
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Geologists have a different time scale than the average person has. I know one who sniffs at sedimentary rock as 'just new stuff' . If you think that in old age you remember climate as colder that may or may not be. Our memories are often focused on the extremes. If you look at weather reports over the past thousand years you will see periods of one extreme or the other it hasn't been static.
This year the weather has been quite wet which is why I haven't yet ridden the Norton. Unusual.
 

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Onder said:
Geologists have a different time scale than the average person has. I know one who sniffs at sedimentary rock as 'just new stuff' . If you think that in old age you remember climate as colder that may or may not be. Our memories are often focused on the extremes. If you look at weather reports over the past thousand years you will see periods of one extreme or the other it hasn't been static.
This year the weather has been quite wet which is why I haven't yet ridden the Norton. Unusual.
Click to expand...
Quite wet?

QUITE wet ??

It’s rained almost every freakin day this year…

Someone I know reckons (as of yesterday) we’d had 10 days so far this year without rain.

Bad time to be a fine weather biker !
 
Careful guys
Anyone not expert in this field or at least made a study of it is not allowed to comment
Uninformed opinions are not allowed
 
Uninformed opinions? Oh oh I had better remove ALL of my comments since day one!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: baz
Moving into the "rainy season" here in Japan and starting to warm up. Also, no daylight savings time here, so starting to become light around 04:30 with the sunset around 18:30 Cj
 
Fricken Hot!

Annandale, VA

11:20am 78F, High Humidity, "Feels Like": 87F
Expected at 3pm 86F, "Feels Like:" 92F

Three nights ago heat was on and working hard.

We're having July in April and Virginia is nowhere near as hot generally as more southern states.

Trees love it = Pollen: Very High!
 
Just my observations of the changes. I do remember when we were supposed to freeze to death. Movies were even made to call it out. I remember one being about a girl having a nightmare that she was burning up in the heat, but was actually freezing to death.
I also remember many places burning coal. Schools, factories and homes. The coal trucks pulling up. The back of the truck rising up, Men with square canvas bushel baskets having the coal dumped from the raised truck box and dumping it down the coal chute into the basement.
Feckin cold
Cinders being used to pave driveways and even tracks.
As their coal towers were torn down decades ago, I thought they were out of business. I was wrong https://wisconsin.wholesale-durable.org/657904-schneider_fuel_supply_co.htm
If you look at my profile, you will see that I am a field construction boilermaker.
I believe in the late 60s or early 70s anti pollution equipment was starting to be developed. Precipitators https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+an+electrostatic+precipitator+work&client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=37d8bbf9c1461c28&sxsrf=ACQVn0-hNzSN9T_jgFE1kLITGALv0xqL9w:1714495474997&ei=8h8xZqu1PKzUp84P95aiwAM&oq=precipitators+meaning&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiFXByZWNpcGl0YXRvcnMgbWVhbmluZyoCCAYyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEcyChAAGLADGNYEGEdIl1NQAFgAcAF4AZABAJgBAKABAKoBALgBAcgBAJgCAaACB5gDAIgGAZAGCJIHATGgBwA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
Bag houses https://iac-intl.com/baghouse/
Scrubbers https://www.machengineering.com/how-wet-scrubbers-work-to-remove-air-pollution/
I was an apprentice when the Pleasant Prairie Power Plant was being built. https://www.wgtd.org/news/pleasant-prairie-power-plant-ends-operation
When were on the roof of the boiler house (250' up) we could pick out the cities by the brown haze over them. Racine, Milwaukee and such.
Toward the end of my working years, working at the plant, we would take break on the roof. I could no longer pick out the cities.
The point of what I'm wondering about. Has the removal of particulates from the air allowed more heat to find its way to earth? The timing coincides with freezing/lack of pollution controls to warming and pollution controls. When I ride on roads that are shadded in spring time, I can come upon section of ice, while unshaded areas are actualy hot. The same is true when riding after the rain has ended. Dry in the open, wet in shade.
Did the lenendary London Fog start to disapate in this same time frame? The moisture would cling to the coal dust particles?
I ride through the forrest of southern Wisconsin. They used to be cooler. The tmber was mostly sold off, so there is not much teperature change when entering them now.
I'm not advocating returning to pollution, just trying to state what might be another added cause to what is causing our problems.
My qualifacetion is that I finished High School.
 
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