Fast tickover AGAIN - Euro4

richard-7 said:
On the norton software its called “re-learn idle”. We were instructed to do this with every remap.
Click to expand...


Richard,
That's interesting.
I had 2 re-maps on my 961, and my dealer never mentioned doing a re-learn idle.
That may be the reason for the remarkable change in my startup/idle after the battery replacement.
 
BritTwit said:
For sure the root cause of the wild idle phenomenon is the Idle Air Control, and the programming that enables it.
How the IAC is using the sensors (airbox temp, cylinder temp, tps, crank, etc) to control fueling is the culprit.
Without access to this area of the ECU, its impossible to affect a solution.

What seems peculiar to me is that this issue has been appearing on some 961's for a while already.
I would think that the factory would have noticed it to and made an all out effort to resolve it.
However, we now see some newer machines, MKII units with this same issue.
How could Norton allow such a problem to continue?

I have never owned an EFI machine that had such a problem.
I think most customers buy an EFI machine thinking that idling issues are problems that only old carbed bikes had.
There had better not be any wild idling V4 1200's or 650's in Norton's future, or happy customers will be hard to come by.
Click to expand...


I don't think there is an underlying mechanical or sensor problem with mine so what I'm seeing is an ECU gremlin which is only occasional and is fixed by turning it off and on again. Everything these days is developed to 90% reliable especially for a small outfit like Norton. My Jaguar windows need an occasional ecu reset, my CCTV camera doesn't work some days, Internet Explorer crashes etc etc.

I totally agree with the V4 sentiment - I am genuinely worried that those kind of owners will not be tolerant of similar problems and a bike of that performance is totally reliant on its software to keep it and the rider on the road safely. Anti-wheelie and cornering ABS systems can have no margin for error.
 
BritTwit said:
...
I tend to think that the problem is related to settings in the IAC that can be re-adapted.
Otherwise, why would my bike perform so differently now with no changes other than a battery replacement.
Click to expand...

Wow - I never picked up on this and I usually read all your posts! An elegantly cheap solution that I'll keep in mind if my 2015 Sport ever has this problem.
 
Clive said:
I know there have been many postings on the subject where the tick-over hovers around 2500rpm and solutions have been found in remapping, idle motor air leaks, exhaust leaks etc. but I am wondering whether my recent experience is an ECU issue.

The bike is a Euro 4 CR decatted with open factory pipes. The effect is not repeatable and has happened twice several weeks apart since open pipes and remap. Both times switching it off and on again cured it instantly. To me this eliminates any mechanical issue. As a computer systems engineer (in addition to other proper engineering disciplines), included embedded systems, it sounds like a volatile value used for the tick-over speed calculation being corrupted or maybe the idle valve went to sleep?

It fired up fine but shortly into the ride it was ticking over at a well controlled 2500rpm. If I put it into a high gear and let the revs drop below this as soon as I pulled the clutch in it would idle normally until I blipped the throttle when it returned to 2500rpm.

It is more a minor personality disorder than a full blown fault as the rest of the time it runs great, but based on these effects are there any inspired suggestions?
Click to expand...

Try disconnecting the exhaust O2 sensor, you can put a 330ohm resistor across the plug on the ECU side so it thinks it’s still connected. My experience has been that all the weird shit disappears once you do this, mine used to hunt all the time but taking the O2 sensors out fixed it. It also made it smoother at low or constant speeds. I gauruntee you, if you want to see just how smooth your bike can be - unplug those little buggers!
 
Kiwi, that sounds interesting. Can you help a Luddite buy suggesting a source (eBay?) for said resistors and in identifying the plug where they’d go??
 
If you substitute a resistor for an O2 sensor you will kill the catalytic converter as the mixture will go rich at some point and contaminate the internals, it's fine if you have removed it.
 
Kiwi961 said:
Try disconnecting the exhaust O2 sensor, you can put a 330ohm resistor across the plug on the ECU side so it thinks it’s still connected. My experience has been that all the weird shit disappears once you do this, mine used to hunt all the time but taking the O2 sensors out fixed it. It also made it smoother at low or constant speeds. I gauruntee you, if you want to see just how smooth your bike can be - unplug those little buggers!
Click to expand...

This works well on all EFI machines to force the ECU to enrich the mixture.
It's a cheap solution, so worth a try at least.
 
Fast tickover AGAIN - Euro4
Just figured I'd throw this photo from a previously posted link up here.
 
I think what I am going to say was already covered in the past. We use 4 wire O2 sensors and 2 wires are for the heater function. The other two wires are O2 signal and return . It is the signal wire pair that need the 330 ohm resistor . Can someone else confirm this ? Thank you.
 
I’m none the wiser guys.

Photo ain’t even a 961.

Can anyone actually help me source where to buy a plug from (I’m happy to pay a little for a purpose made plug vs something that looks like it will fall out one day).

And can anyone actually help me identify where it goes on the 961?

A plug, and a manual for it, sound like ideal additions to the one07 line up to me!
 
Here is a sample "rig" from the Triumph rat forum.
Use of crimp connectors prevents resistor from coming lose
Then wrap assemble and with shrink wrap to seal and secure all.
One pair for sensor output, another for heater line.
To locate the connector just trace the O2 sensor lines up the front downtubes and under tank.

Fast tickover AGAIN - Euro4
Hosted on Fotki

Fast tickover AGAIN - Euro4
Hosted on Fotki
 
OK , So 330 ohms across the heater pair and 1k ohms across the O2 signal and return . Thanks
 
According to my 961 manual, there are 4 wires in the sensor connector. Just like the Triumph in the picture, which is really nice and clear.

But it’s a Triumph!

Can anyone clarify which resistor goes to which wire colours on a 961?
 
The 4 wire O2 sensors have a heater element on two wires . Those wires are the white pair. The other two wires , the grey and black are the O2 signal and return . Grey is signal and black is return. I do not know for sure which pair gets the 330 ohm and the 1k ohm. Looks like the Triumph photo shows that , check for sure ! But the color code I gave you is correct.
 

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