extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete

here's a thread with 2 posts about 2 dreer bikes with no head steadys
E

Post in thread 'Extra isolastic'

I just got off the phone to the current owner of the first Dreer Commando, the one which actually featured in the Cycle World article and he told me that his does not have a headsteady either, Kenny Dreer only fitted the headsteady to the other variants (like mine) and not the alloy tanked bikes.

E

Thread 'Extra isolastic'

The extra isolastic below the gearbox is one of the signatures of the Dreer Commandos so I was rather interested to see that in the one recently sold on ebay that Kenny Dreer appears to have retained this but completely removed the headsteady and so going back to having three mounting points. I have one of the early Dreers which has a headmount and have always had some problems with straight line stability. As soon as I get it back on the road I will have to try it without the headsteady to see how it handles. Doing a bit of non-scientific lateral thinking a three legged table is more...

pix in this post shows no head steady on a dreer (scroll down}
gortnipper

Post in thread 'Norton 880 long-term project'

grandpaul said:
The Dreer Prototype uses a Dave Taylor heim link at the top, and Windy's heim link at the front.

I'm still scratching my brain trying to come up with a simple, bolt-on rear/lower link to complete the triangulation.
Click to expand...

I came across this link while wasting time looking at the ebay ad for the alloy Dreer 880 and looking back iun time....

https://web.archive.org/web/20030410141353/http://www.vintagerebuilds.com/mtrmnts.html

"Motor Mounts
The VR880 utilizes the latest style front and rear motor mount system. The rubber mounts have a softer durometer rating than the...
extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete


(from the link)
dreer iso max
extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete

This is truly the masterpiece of the VR880’s handling. Simply put, it works! The ISO-MAX mount, fitted between the engine plates and secured to the bottom frame tubes, gives the power-drive unit the ability to shake in the vertical plane (just like front and rear mounts) but absolutely eliminates torque flex in the lateral plane. It works so well, that the top racing style mount we have previously used has been eliminated!
 
Last edited:
robs ss said:
I think the "triangulation" he talks about comes a poor seventh to the original top iso on commandos.
Look at the frame drawing - I have marked to original isos as F, R & T - the one under the swingarm pivot as NEW. The new one has comparatively little vertical separation from F & R so can't possibly be a effective as the, existing, upper one. It is also in one of the dirtiest areas on the bike.
Sounds like fixing a problem that does not exist with a substantially inferior "solution".
Cheers
extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete
Click to expand...

^^^^^ THIS
 
Where I placed my 3rd iso in 1988 for the first time after a little consideration is NOT where you show it on your drawing but at a point just rearward of the rear down tube in the bend and level with the bottom rail so it is equal distant top to S'arm and then to the lower added mount which as you would then be able to see is a triangle to the front mount. Maybe Dreers idea is better. Is it any better than std I don't know but seems to be, what matters most is I did it back then it worked fine and still does as far as I can tell. And I don't care what you think. Please amend your incorrect drawing. I have years building and riding Commandoes since 1975 actually. I have 22 of the bloody things and think they a good thing with a few problems to sort. I did not go out and buy them as restored or complete clean restorable bikes as a collector may. Only a few came as complete rough machines the rest were very poor basket cases with lots missing or bikes built from a frame first then collect the rest. As such I have a fair understanding of these bikes. In the past I have also built many bikes for customers, either restoring or specials. I ride a dead stock 1973 850 with Contis and 40mm CV and it is a beauty. Oh and a 6 pot up front. The original top mount was probably an afterthough of an afterthought in the heady days of bell bottoms and LSD.
 
Brian Holzigal said:
Where I placed my 3rd iso in 1988 for the first time after a little consideration is NOT where you show it on your drawing but at a point just rearward of the rear down tube in the bend and level with the bottom rail so it is equal distant top to S'arm and then to the lower added mount which as you would then be able to see is a triangle to the front mount. Maybe Dreers idea is better. Is it any better than std I don't know but seems to be, what matters most is I did it back then it worked fine and still does as far as I can tell. And I don't care what you think. Please amend your incorrect drawing. I have years building and riding Commandoes since 1975 actually. I have 22 of the bloody things and think they a good thing with a few problems to sort. I did not go out and buy them as restored or complete clean restorable bikes as a collector may. Only a few came as complete rough machines the rest were very poor basket cases with lots missing or bikes built from a frame first then collect the rest. As such I have a fair understanding of these bikes. In the past I have also built many bikes for customers, either restoring or specials. I ride a dead stock 1973 850 with Contis and 40mm CV and it is a beauty. Oh and a 6 pot up front. The original top mount was probably an afterthough of an afterthought in the heady days of bell bottoms and LSD.
Click to expand...
Yes , Bell bottoms , purple microdot , orange , Windowpane , white blotter .
Ordered in a SS 13 mm . rear MK 111 hydraulic piston today .
 
robs ss said:
What the heck does that mean? 🤔
Click to expand...
It means, You gave an explanation that many seem to miss by using a simple diagram to illustrate why the original trianglulation of isolastic fixing points has a greater distance of offset from each other so it would inherently maintain the plane of engine support with less deflection given the same amount of play at the fixing points...
 
I've pretty much lost track of what people are talking about now
But here's my version
It's been on there over 25 years and the world hasn't ended yet
 

Attachments

  • extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete
    IMG_20180528_192025929.jpg
    349.7 KB · Views: 54
grandpaul said:
My favorite SECOND iso-resultant stabilizer (Heim joint top one being only the FIRST) is Windy Ead's FRONT steady.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about this one (yeah, I know, I know...) and obviously it needs something like the MK3 top spring to support the weight at the front.
I have seen springs underneath but I think they would, very likely, be a way of transmitting fore-and-aft vibration into the frame.
If something similar to the above were used at the rear, it would also need something to support the weight - maybe a rod and spring from above the rear of the gearbox?
Of course, then there is nothing to give a fore-and-aft "home" position for the parts in the cradle. Maybe one rubber iso is necessary to give that "home" position.
I'll go back to my corner now.
Cheers
extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete
 
Last edited:
Well gents it's been nice communicating with you, I have a club mag to get ready, HMCCQ, I only dropped into your world to see if any Norton riders have had anything to do with the Norvil starter kit. I was out on the bike in question again today and it would not turn over when leaving the coffee shop. Disappointing, AGAIN , my Auto Elect mate thinks it will be the piss poor starter used and he has seen it before. The factory in China does not grease the solenoid piston which can jam/stick. So more bloody work to do to fix other peoples shit work. He fixed the cheap burnt out starter winding in the expensive Madigan in my wifes bike with a Toyota winding, more Chinese junk. Cheers , I have plenty to do in my shed. Norton on.
 
Brian Holzigal said:
Well gents it's been nice communicating with you, I have a club mag to get ready, HMCCQ, I only dropped into your world to see if any Norton riders have had anything to do with the Norvil starter kit. I was out on the bike in question again today and it would not turn over when leaving the coffee shop. Disappointing, AGAIN , my Auto Elect mate thinks it will be the piss poor starter used and he has seen it before. The factory in China does not grease the solenoid piston which can jam/stick. So more bloody work to do to fix other peoples shit work. He fixed the cheap burnt out starter winding in the expensive Madigan in my wifes bike with a Toyota winding, more Chinese junk. Cheers , I have plenty to do in my shed. Norton on.
Click to expand...
Safe riding mate!
 
ludwig said:
The spring is there to relieve the front iso.
It will not restrict engine movements.
Click to expand...
A component of the spring force acts against the rearward motion of the head. How much this helps I don't know - you are probably right, by itself it will not restrict engine movements. A similar spring with high hysteresis positioned horizontally would probably work.

- Knut
 
Fast Eddie said:
It generally means that the poster agrees with the post they cited, which in this case is yours. So, essentially it means that he agrees with you.
Click to expand...
often calls out an agreement (& why) with 1 side or main point of an argument

the main question is 1 way of mounting, top or bottom, better for triangulation, then might going 4 mounts be best of all, or redundant, then also perhaps why any method may be problematic etc

i wasn't aware of anyone trying or using a mounting without a head steady, until it came up recently in the other thread

looks like dreer was ok with it (no head steady), or at least the way he went about it, with his bottom mount,

then a new poster recently chimed in, with hands on results, that seem to indicate at least good results, so far, for street use, with a 1st person accounting & usage over an extended period of time

whether actually a superior handling method, or just an alternative, might only be known or verified, if someone went racing with it

i'm only aware of & there is plenty of info on Doug MacRae's approach, to ultimate racing handling with a commando

​

 
Last edited:
Brian Holzigal said:
Well gents it's been nice communicating with you, I have a club mag to get ready, HMCCQ, I only dropped into your world to see if any Norton riders have had anything to do with the Norvil starter kit. I was out on the bike in question again today and it would not turn over when leaving the coffee shop. Disappointing, AGAIN , my Auto Elect mate thinks it will be the piss poor starter used and he has seen it before. The factory in China does not grease the solenoid piston which can jam/stick. So more bloody work to do to fix other peoples shit work. He fixed the cheap burnt out starter winding in the expensive Madigan in my wifes bike with a Toyota winding, more Chinese junk. Cheers , I have plenty to do in my shed. Norton on.
Click to expand...
Tx for chiming in, sure would love to see more details from your fab work

i think your triumph 5sp box & clutch in a commando is the first i've seen
cheers
 
Last edited:
baz said:
I've pretty much lost track of what people are talking about now
But here's my version
It's been on there over 25 years and the world hasn't ended yet
Click to expand...
And incase anyone is interested here's my top mount
And like the iso under the gearbox it's empty IE no rubbers
When I made this i wanted the norvil head steady but couldn't afford one
And I'd not seen the Dave Taylor type
 

Attachments

  • extra ISO under gearbox head steady delete
    IMG_20180528_195633011.jpg
    325.8 KB · Views: 39
74ok said:
i'm only aware of & there is plenty of info on Doug MacRae's approach, to ultimate racing handling with a commando

​

Click to expand...
You mean this post?
Doug MacRae

Thread 'Race Commando handling secrets revealed'

Not everyone wants to reveal their secrets especially in racing and I am not retiring from racing yet, although I fell off a few times in 2009 and lost to Kenny for the first time ( I should have retired right there ), I have slowed a bit.
It is possible that there is a better set up Commando chassis that turns in as quick, can be laid on it's side through an 90mph sweeper without a weave and is dead straight at 130mph. Anything is possible.
There is no credit for me, Herb Becker was the brainchild who built the bike, the ideas and fabrication were all his- I was amazed at the difference...
  • Like

- Knut
 

Similar threads

Hobot
  • Locked
Bent under spine tube and head steady
Replies
0
Views
734
Hobot
Hobot
Back
Top