EV drawbacks

Hypothesis to theory takes a long time and is confirmed by observational data not by models.


Plate tectonic theory had its beginnings in 1915 when Alfred Wegener proposed his theory of "continental drift."

This was the first hypothesis, it got disproved but it was heading in the right direction and came back modified from results of observations.

In the 1960's a world-wide array of seismometers were installed to monitor nuclear testing, and these instruments revealed a startling geological phenomenon. It showed that earthquakes, volcanoes, and other active geologic features for the most part aligned along distinct belts around the world, and those belts defined the edges of tectonic plates.
And yet Climate Science

Michael Joseph Kelly
Credentials
Ph.D., solid state physics, Cambridge (1974).1
M.Sc., Mathematics and Physics, University of Wellington, New Zealand.2
FR.Eng.3
FRS.4

“It’s no good looking at a model today and saying it’s done well for the last 30 years. If you look at a model made 30 years ago and look how well it’s done in the 30 years since, if you look at the data for the last 30 years, on average the models have been heating twice as fast as the data,” he said.

On NetZero based on Boris Johnsons UK plan

In an article for The Spectator, Kelly characterised Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s 10 point plan for a “Green Industrial Revolution” as “doomed from the outset,” and “reckless, unscientific and certain to fail.” Kelly disputed the cost implications of Johnson’s plan, writing: “Johnson’s green revolution would mean that we would need to completely upgrade electric wiring in our homes, streets, substations, and transmission lines. To meet demand would require enormously costly upgrades to local electricity grids, which we would all ultimately pay for through higher energy bills. If this really is part of the plan, then the government must be honest about who is to foot the bill.”

On the IPCC

As a panel member for an inquiry into the “Climategate” controversy in 2009, Kelly said:14 15
“Up to and throughout this exercise, I have remained puzzled how the real humility of the scientists in this area, as evident in their papers, including all these here, and the talks I have heard them give, is morphed into statements of confidence at the 95% level for public consumption through the IPCC process. This does not happen in other subjects of equal importance to humanity, e.g. energy futures or environmental degradation or resource depletion. I can only think it is the ‘authority’ appropriated by the IPCC itself that is the root cause.”
 
My point is that we have absolute proof now of recent examples where ‘the science‘ was absolutely being corrupted, differing / challenging opinions ignored, etc, etc.

This was in full view during the most high profile situation in recent history.

So my personal opinion is that your ‘faith’ that such institutions cannot be ‘guided’ by higher authorities, is naive. To put it politely.

Naive maybe FE. Your lived experience with this offshore windmill contract led you to think that the science was being corrupted for what reason? Illegal activity? Political manouvering/interference? Incompetent project management/engineering/planning/leadership? Contractural obligation?

‘The science’ was being corrupted to what end?

I’m quite positive that lots of significant screw ups will occur with this massive undertaking and there will undoubtedly be criminal elements waiting in the wings to take advantage wherever possible. There may even be attempts at government interference/ manipulation - we’re talking about a global initiative after all.

Do I think your example is likely to be indicative of future activity? Not really. Could it happen again - absolutely.

My ramblings only of course.
 
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Probably doesn't need to be said that with Govt grants being made available, anyone who can quote Ohm's Law seems to be able to jump on this bandwagon.
And cling on at what cost???
 
Deffiently ☝
If EVs were really that good ...why does the guberment have to pay you to own one
 
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Naive maybe FE. Your lived experience with this offshore windmill contract led you to think that the science was being corrupted for what reason? Illegal activity? Political manouvering/interference? Incompetent project management/engineering/planning/leadership? Contractural obligation?

‘The science’ was being corrupted to what end?

I’m quite positive that lots of significant screw ups will occur with this massive undertaking and there will undoubtedly be criminal elements waiting in the wings to take advantage wherever possible. There may even be attempts at government interference/ manipulation - we’re talking about a global initiative after all.

Do I think your example is likely to be indicative of future activity? Not really. Could it happen again - absolutely.

My ramblings only of course.
Good question.

It seemed to me that the green energy agenda was being pushed no matter what.

I‘d say there’s two strong reasons for that:

First, the political inertia is so great that anyone who doesn’t sing like a canary is instantly accused of being the enemy. Look at Toyota, pioneers and world leaders in hybrid technology, and hydrogen technology, and the first automotive company to put forward a ‘green’ vision that was actually based on meaningful science, and they are now the first company to actually begin the phase out of ICE only vehicles (in Europe at least)… but because they won’t blindly sign up to an arbitrary 2030 ICE ban (that many industry insiders are now openly saying is impossible), they are touted as a pariah !

Second is the money. The company I was engaged with had hundreds of millions of € at stake… they weren’t exactly gonna start throwing spanners in the works…
 
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Deffiently
If EVs were really that good ...why does the guberment have pay you to own one
I’ve said for a long time that I believe there must be a ‘law’ here somewhere… if something is not economically viable I seriously question if it is environmentally viable… because if something is super expensive to produce, it is so because that money is needed for ‘stuff’ and the mining, processing, manufacturing, transporting of ‘stuff’ has a carbon footprint…

So if product A is ‘green’ and many times more costly than product B, and product A needs govt subsidies to be viable, then I would seriously question product A‘s total carbon footprint if the entire value stream and full life-cycle is properly factored in.

I realise its a simplistic viewpoint, but I still think there’s sumthin‘ in it.
 
Not posting this to discredit this content (I’ll have a read on what’s happening in Germany) but when I read something I’ll always check out the source; I guess we all do. Worth noting, so you can read an article with that in mind.

View attachment 106630
You should see the record "global warming" snow that is now threatening huge swaths of the western US with catastrophic flooding from snow melt. At the SAME TIME the drought-ravaged west will benefit from only a tiny percentage of all that water because due to green weenies' policies limiting the impedance of free natural flow, there are precious few reservoirs built any more, that COULD HAVE captured and stored this excess.

Any entity still referring to itself using the words "Global Warming" is wearing the Emperor's new clothes.
 
Naive maybe FE. Your lived experience with this offshore windmill contract led you to think that the science was being corrupted for what reason? Illegal activity? Political manouvering/interference? Incompetent project management/engineering/planning/leadership? Contractural obligation?

‘The science’ was being corrupted to what end?

I’m quite positive that lots of significant screw ups will occur with this massive undertaking and there will undoubtedly be criminal elements waiting in the wings to take advantage wherever possible. There may even be attempts at government interference/ manipulation - we’re talking about a global initiative after all.

Do I think your example is likely to be indicative of future activity? Not really. Could it happen again - absolutely.

My ramblings only of course.
"Free" government money is the root of the vast majority of "climate science", "green" (like money) technology of every stripe, and all manner of subsidies, stipends, "supports" et cetera.

Get while the gettin' is good, and the printing presses are operating at max tilt!
 
I’ve said for a long time that I believe there must be a ‘law’ here somewhere… if something is not economically viable I seriously question if it is environmentally viable… because if something is super expensive to produce, it is so because that money is needed for ‘stuff’ and the mining, processing, manufacturing, transporting of ‘stuff’ has a carbon footprint…

So if product A is ‘green’ and many times more costly than product B, and product A needs govt subsidies to be viable, then I would seriously question product A‘s total carbon footprint if the entire value stream and full life-cycle is properly factored in.

I realise its a simplistic viewpoint, but I still think there’s sumthin‘ in it.
A very good view point F.E👍
 
This technology is going to bounce the Electronic vehicle movement right off the grid and into the bottom of the sea.
I have been advocating Hydrogen as a fuel for years, just needed to buck up for a few important patents stashed away and someone with technological prowess take it and run.

How about Toyota, they did come into the alternate power source game early on with the Prius.
The one drawback to this new technology is the amount of political endorsement and money attached to this electric vehicle - green fad bandwagon that is so popular at the moment.
As usual, follow the money...and IMHO this technology is where the real money is destined.

 
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This technology is going to bounce the Electronic vehicle movement right off the grid and into the bottom of the sea.
I have been advocating Hydrogen as a fuel for years, just needed to buck up for a few important patents stashed away and someone of technological prowess take it and run.

How about Toyota, they did come into the alternate power source game early on with the Prius.
The one drawback to this new technology is the amount of political endorsement and money attached to this electric vehicle - green fad bandwagon that is so popular at the moment.
As usual, follow the money...and IMHO this technology is where the real money is destined.


"Toyota your so right" ...way to go.👍
Electric....we can switch you off !!
💰 💰
 
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I’ve said for a long time that I believe there must be a ‘law’ here somewhere… if something is not economically viable I seriously question if it is environmentally viable… because if something is super expensive to produce, it is so because that money is needed for ‘stuff’ and the mining, processing, manufacturing, transporting of ‘stuff’ has a carbon footprint…

So if product A is ‘green’ and many times more costly than product B, and product A needs govt subsidies to be viable, then I would seriously question product A‘s total carbon footprint if the entire value stream and full life-cycle is properly factored in.

I realise its a simplistic viewpoint, but I still think there’s sumthin‘ in it.

Simplicity is so often the best route...and you stated it well.

For instance, while the US govt. , at this time, is trying to force every citizen in the next ten to fifteen years into driving an electric vehicle because it's all the popular stance with the political left and the progressives, a guy named E. Musk has been soaking up the cash via federal incentives with his new car company...avg. cost of a new Tesla is 60 thousand dollars.

To date, Musk has accrued almost 6 BILLION dollars.
You didn't really think he was funding the whole deal did you?
The multi-billion dollar figure comprises a variety of government incentives, including grants, tax breaks, factory construction, discounted loans and environmental credits.
E vehicle is/was a mantra and a fad. Musk made millions and the politicians sounded genuine and honest advocating for E power.
How many here know of an honest politician?

But his technology did allow the politicians seeking that moderate and progressive green vote to look good offering up those subsidies.
Woo - Hoo gotta' save the planet!!!
A truly green hero, that is until he bought Twitter, now those same liberal political factions factions that touted his green achievements have found yet another rich guy to dump on and expel their hate again.
I guess the fact that fossil fuel is needed to generate the juice to charge all those battery operated vehicles kind of got lost in the Go Green - Big E promotions.

For those E car owners, good luck finding recharge power anywhere other than an urban setting and know in the next 3-5 years a new car will be in the offering at half the cost of what you paid to save the planet.
New automobile power sources will have zero environmental impact.
No more Lithium!!
Interesting that no one has speculated on where the resale value of your E vehicle is going to end up.
Can you say underwater?
Nor is their any discussion of the environmental effects of mining Lithium and what you do with an electric car when it dies...same with so much of the panic ridden development of E power sources. What do you do with a worn out wind tower...those blades are made to not break. Some sources say it costs more to dispose of one than to build one. Nor was any consideration given to the effects of this E movement on an antiquated power grid in the US.

Oh yeah, try not to wreck your E vehicle. A second mortgage will be needed to pay for repairs.
 
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Simplicity is so often the best route...and you stated it well.

For instance, while the US govt. , at this time, is trying to force every citizen in the next ten to fifteen years into driving an electric vehicle because it's all the popular stance with the political left and the progressives, a guy named E. Musk has been soaking up the cash via federal incentives with his new car company...avg. cost of a new Tesla is 60 thousand dollars.

To date, Musk has accrued almost 6 BILLION dollars.
You didn't really think he was funding the whole deal did you?
The multi-billion dollar figure comprises a variety of government incentives, including grants, tax breaks, factory construction, discounted loans and environmental credits.
E vehicle is/was a mantra and a fad. Musk made millions and the politicians sounded genuine and honest advocating for E power.
How many here know of an honest politician?

But his technology did allow the politicians seeking that moderate and progressive green vote to look good offering up those subsidies.
Woo - Hoo gotta' save the planet!!!
A truly green hero, that is until he bought Twitter, now certain political factions have another rich guy to dump on and hate again.
I guess the fact that fossil fuel is needed to generate the juice to charge all those battery operated vehicles kind of got lost in the Go Green - Big E promotions.

For those E car owners, good luck finding recharge power anywhere other than an urban setting and know in the next 3-5 years a new car will be in the offering at half the cost with almost zero environmental impact.
Interesting that no one has speculated on where the resale value of your E vehicle is going to end up.
Can you say underwater?
Oh yeah, try not to wreck your E vehicle. A second mortgage will be needed to pay for repairs.
How does it go ..."there are 9 million bicycles in Beijing"....thats what I believe they really want us to be on ...for the not so wealthy...Most city councils down here have put more time and money into bike lanes & E scooters (by reducing the vehicle lanes) than charging stations etc by miles ..
 
The crushing burden of energy costs is taking its toll on Europe’s biggest economy. Basic industrial enterprise cannot survive without abundant inexpensive and reliable energy...

Heavy Industry will be outcompeted by those having those attributes available. Western Europe and the US
Leapfrogging each other in Succumbing to the green mantra agenda......how does it go again.... G.W.G.B...Build back better my arse.

 
To continue from my European economics manufacturing energy post...so what happened to all the sustainable green energy for the Ev revolution ?...not to mention the created carbon footprint...
Build back better 🤣....
While russian oil returns to Europe via India
India is buying Russian oil, refining it into fuel and shipping it at a markup back to Europe. So who sanctioned who?
 

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