EI over POINTS IGNITION

Re power difference - as I said, dyno testing we did showed no improvement with EI over properly set points; these guys show points produced more - if you care about 1 or 2 HP. Frankly, I'd call 1-2 HP way below the ability of a standard dyno to consistently measure but FWIW: :https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-9812-ignition-performance-test/

And then there is a Magneto, Joe Hunt in my case one point, one condenser and one coil and one hell of a big spark from low revs to full revs it gets even bigger the faster it spins, fully set up I would never go back to stock points or any EI, but then that's my opinion, first kick every time or 1/2 a swing when its been run for the day, every time and also get long life out of the stock plugs N7Ys, but of course I get the same response from most, it hangs off the timing case, has no retard, is full advance all the time, to me it was one of the best investments I have spent on my Norton of 46 years of ownership and after 8 years and well over 30k miles on it I haven't touched it, just a few drops of oil on the felt for the points arm is all I do once in a while, and can be rebuilt if it ever needs to.

Ashley

I wouldn't care for the "hanging off the side" part of having a magneto - but otherwise they clearly (and historically) work very well.

Wondering about starting with no retard. A lot of posts re kickback - often on old Boyers - caused by low voltage/advanced timing. You don't seem to have any trouble starting with full advance. I assume that's around 30 degrees? I can't figure out why you don't have severe kickback/starting difficulty.

MexicoMike said:

I wouldn't care for the "hanging off the side" part of having a magneto - but otherwise they clearly (and historically) work very well.

Wondering about starting with no retard. A lot of posts re kickback - often on old Boyers - caused by low voltage/advanced timing. You don't seem to have any trouble starting with full advance. I assume that's around 30 degrees? I can't figure out why you don't have severe kickback/starting difficulty.

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The JH set at 28 degrees and has never kicked back, I have run stock point, 3 EI and by far the JH is the best one for starting and to me is a work of art sticking out the side and evens the weight of the primary side lol as I have said the first kick of the day is one big swing on the kicker and all day after that will fire up before I get 1/2 a swing on the kicker, this is my second bike that I ran a JH maggie on my first one was on my 81 Triumph Thunderbird it was the old JH with only 2 rare earth magnet the JH on my Norton has 4 rare earth magnets and a lot bigger spark, the plugs are set at 18 and not 25 like points or EIs, but of course most who knock the JH maggies have never had one and I don't really care what others think about it sitting off the cam/timing case, it sits out in the cool air and not behind a hot motor.


Ashley

Ashley - if you get a chance/feel like it, post a pic (or point me to an existing pic) of the JH mag on your Commando! Wonder how it would work with E-start (Alton)...

Mike I can't post pics till I become a VIP member again, I no longer use outside pic host, but with a E-start I think it would work great and would only draw power for the E-start, as soon as the motor spins the Maggie fires up, once my Norton has been started for the day after that I can sit on the seat to kick it to life with ease as well I have the longer T160 folding kicker, my motor isn't stock I run a hot cam head has been shaved and ported and a balanced crank and has hi compression.
There are pics on this site but would be a few years back when I first put it on and have done a review of the JH, just search JH maggie on a Norton and you might be lucky and find it all.
One day I was heading home and was only about 500mtr from home and one of my plug leads dropped out of the maggie cover the bike was still running on both cylinders with a slight misfire and I could see the spark jumping 2" to 3" from the cover to the lead so I just kept going till I got to my front gate.

Ashley

Thanks Ashley, I'll search for some pics.

Speaking of off topic:
I lusted after a JH magneto when I was a youth in the 1970's, but rebuilt the big Lucas K2f magneto instead. The Lucas magneto sat behind the motor, which is where I would have put the Joe Hunt. I doubt the engine heat would be an issue, but I never installed a Joe Hunt to find out.

I don't remember if the motor was any easier to start with the Lucas magneto. Probably was since the motor was still bone stock then. My guess is over the long haul the Joe Hunt magneto would have saved me a large stack of dollars compared to the route I eventually took with that motorcycle.

I found a pic online. The unit protrudes too far for my personal taste. Obviously, based on Ashley's info, it works well in the application and I wish it was a bit smaller. http://www.britcycle.com/Products/334/334_1280_Example.jpg

MexicoMike said:

I found a pic online. The unit protrudes too far for my personal taste. Obviously, based on Ashley's info, it works well in the application and I wish it was a bit smaller. http://www.britcycle.com/Products/334/334_1280_Example.jpg

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That's all good Mike as we all have our own opinions on where its mounted, I have no problems with it sitting out the side and really its no further than how far the primary sit out, maybe a little bit further, but as I say it runs very cool where its mounted and one other thing where it sits a lot of people ask what is that (the Maggie) and some of the BS stories I come out with in what it is lol even die hard bikers have no idea and after my story they walk away thinking about it before they wake up I was BSing to them, so funny.
As I have said all the time in 46 years of owning and building my Norton its the best ignition system I have ever run on my hotrod Norton and the best thing no heavy battery to worry about failing, the lights will run off the alternator and get you home in the dark but I don't ride it at night no longer I have my other bikes for that, I run a very small bike battery just for my brake light as for a classic bike no need to run light in the day time here.

Ashley

Does the Hunt magneto have an advance system?

JimNH said:

Does the Hunt magneto have an advance system?

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The base unit does not. It appears that an advance mechanism is an option, but the JH website doesn't appear to be specific.

Best.

I found the site unclear on the subject, that's why I asked. I was wondering how there's no kickback with the Hunt mag.

Many aircraft magnetos, like the ones on my plane, incorporate an impulse coupling that provides both a retarded spark and hot spark for starting. The coupling has a pawl that catches a stop and winds the spring while the engine continues to turn. After about 25 degrees of rotation the pawl releases and the spring snaps the the mag creating a fast rotation and a retarded spark just for starting. As soon as the engine is spinning faster than cranking speed centrifugal force pulls the pawls away and the mag timing advances to full advance - no curve as it's not really necessary for what amounts to a mostly constant speed operation. Note that one electronic system may be installed with a curve but the other mag stays for fail-safe.

There are other starting schemes. Some magnetos have a second set of points set in a retarded position and an external vibrator that excites the coil. They're only active while the starter is engaged reverting to normal full advance once starter is de energized.

There are some engines, mostly low horse power, with no retard mechanism and they are prone to kickback.

RoadScholar said:

The base unit does not. It appears that an advance mechanism is an option, but the JH website doesn't appear to be specific.

Best.

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Like a Morris, set advance with retard option for starting.

My experience is there is no difference running properly adjusted points vs. EI. However I've only been stranded twice since I've had my Commando (by stranded I mean unable to rev past 2500 rpm) and both times it was because the Boyer unit crapped out on me, once the box and once the pickups. The irony of literally the only new technology on this old bike failing was not amusing.