cost estimate - rebuild engine and gearbox - ???

Granted the timing side bearing conversion is an improvement but a professional job done restoring the bush should last a long time, professional being the key word. Depends on how much you want to spend and how you will use the bike. I'm on the oem bush on my Thunderbolt after eight years but it just gets casual use and isn't thrashed. A lot of the bad rap the bush got was when people just hammered a new one in and didn't line bore the cases. Suggest you talk to EV engineering in Michigan about your options. Be sure and install an aftermarket oil filter and the SRM pump is nice but sorta pricey.
 
htown16 said:
Granted the timing side bearing conversion is an improvement but a professional job done restoring the bush should last a long time, professional being the key word. Depends on how much you want to spend and how you will use the bike. I'm on the oem bush on my Thunderbolt after eight years but it just gets casual use and isn't thrashed. A lot of the bad rap the bush got was when people just hammered a new one in and didn't line bore the cases. Suggest you talk to EV engineering in Michigan about your options. Be sure and install an aftermarket oil filter and the SRM pump is nice but sorta pricey.
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Looking at the SRM pump, but yes, very pricey. Have a line on a cast iron BSA pump as well. Too bad SRM (or Morgo for that matter) can't be convinced to design a commando pump.
 
htown16 said:
Granted the timing side bearing conversion is an improvement but a professional job done restoring the bush should last a long time, professional being the key word. Depends on how much you want to spend and how you will use the bike. I'm on the oem bush on my Thunderbolt after eight years but it just gets casual use and isn't thrashed. A lot of the bad rap the bush got was when people just hammered a new one in and didn't line bore the cases. Suggest you talk to EV engineering in Michigan about your options. Be sure and install an aftermarket oil filter and the SRM pump is nice but sorta pricey.
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good points. this is just a project - something to do. as far as how I will use the bike, most likely just some local, occasional, casual pleasure riding - and probably not many miles at that. at 72, my days of "hammering" anything are long gone. would really just like to restore it and to bring it back to it's former glory - this one's more about the build. as far as the engine internals, as long as everything is somewhat within spec, and nothing's broken, it might be OK for what I want to use the bike for. kind of just want project - something where I can spend quality alone time out in the shop.
 
If you want to check the bush, pull the timing cover and mount a dial gauge to measure up and down movement on the crank. More than .003 and the bush is shot, .0015 is the spec. A worn bush will result in low oil pressure and a potentially starved big end bearing. Suggest you pick up the book "Building Budget Brits" by Mike Brown. He has a lot of good practical advice on rebuilding BSA engines, especially the bottom end. The BSA factory shop manual is about worthless. This is also a good forum for all things BSA. http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=1&page=1
 
If it runs like it looks you've got a deal going..... Maybe the guts are just as nice.
 
joe czech said:
realize the wrong forum, but this MAY be my next project - 66 spitfire Mk2 (comes with the original GP carbs). #'s match, ran when parked, repainted wrong color. just got to get the thing for the right price...

cost estimate - rebuild engine and gearbox - ???


My favorite BSA. I'd hit it......
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htown16 said:
If you want to check the bush, pull the timing cover and mount a dial gauge to measure up and down movement on the crank. More than .003 and the bush is shot, .0015 is the spec. A worn bush will result in low oil pressure and a potentially starved big end bearing. Suggest you pick up the book "Building Budget Brits" by Mike Brown. He has a lot of good practical advice on rebuilding BSA engines, especially the bottom end. The BSA factory shop manual is about worthless. This is also a good forum for all things BSA. http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=1&page=1
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I whole heartedly agree with this view. And would add that IF the bush has been properly / professionally fitted, and IF it’s then used with a good quality synthetic oil (ie Bel Ray 10/50 v twin synthetic if it shares engine oil with the primary, or Royal Purple HPS 20/50 if not), and IF it is fitted with a remote cartridge type paper element oil filter... I would then wager the bush will outlast you.

The only limitation to a correctly fitted and used bush main IMHO is it won’t handle flex very well. But to do that with a BSA crank I think you’re talking about revs that you’ll just never use.
 
how you are going to use it is relevant to the degree of overhaul. I agree bearing conversion is not essential, depending on condition and usage. How many miles a year are likely?
 
jan nelder said:
how you are going to use it is relevant to the degree of overhaul. I agree bearing conversion is not essential, depending on condition and usage. How many miles a year are likely?
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probably no many miles. I have no intentions of getting rid of the 74 Mk2 - that will be my main ride. as I said, the BSA is more of a project - if it happens at all, I would estimate 500 miles per year - 500 easy miles.
 
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The bush would be the way to go on 500 miles a year, but it has to be made from the right material and installed properly using line boring. EdV is the go to guy for this in the US.
 
I rebuilt an A65 lighting oil in tank model which cost a fortune, fitted a new timing side bush refurbished the oil pump. When running the oil light would slowly come on as the bike warmed up. When I took it on the road the vibrations were enough to make your fillings drop out, but it did handle well.
I sold it asap.
 
Ratboiler said:
I rebuilt an A65 lighting oil in tank model which cost a fortune, fitted a new timing side bush refurbished the oil pump. When running the oil light would slowly come on as the bike warmed up. When I took it on the road the vibrations were enough to make your fillings drop out, but it did handle well.
I sold it asap.
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Did you miss out: 'to' in that last sentence? :)
 
kommando said:
The A65 costs depend on the timing side bush, lowest cost would be a new bush plus line reaming, highest would be the needle/ball combined replacement.
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yes a Ducati buddy of mine is having his bevel 900 engine rebuilt to as new spec , he removed engine and delivered to builder ... deposit was $10,000 CAD which is supposed to cover total cost , ouch !
 
Rebuild costs depend almost entirely on the state of the engine being rebuilt, and how much you can do yourself. I just finished an A65 build, but it was different in that a lot of parts were missing that had to be found and bought. Crank regrind was $80, timing bush hone to size $40. Bore were OK just needing hone and new pistons, rings. I did the head work myself, new exhaust valves only needed. So not too bad. If the engine is complete and in generally good condition, figure 6-800 for parts and some labor.
I don't agree at all that the timing side bush is rubbish. My friend Don has over 60K on his original bush. Frequent oil changes are a must. Drop a new one in heated cases and have it honed to size. You'll never put enough miles on it to warrant the extra outlay for a conversion. Make sure the crank endplay is correct. It makes all the difference in how quiet the engine runs. I balanced this one, $150, do yours as well while it's apart. They vibrate enough as it is.
 
I am not sure "how much to rebuild an engine and gearbox" is the right question.
The better questions are "Do you feel lucky?" And "How much do you want an A65?"
Do you feel lucky since you know nothing about the internal condition of the bike. And you won't know until you buy it and tear it down. And you might get lucky. And it might be a disaster.

As to how much do you want an A65 - if you really want one, you will do what it takes and pay what it costs.

The resell price on an A65 is pretty soft. But if you get lucky and you really want one............
 
I picked up a '68 Lightning in running but rough condition about 12 years ago for "$3500 and proceeded to restore it.
a couple of years later I finished it and it was gorgeous!. Buy that time I had $7000 into it plus my labor (I loved the process).
After riding it a bit I figured the intense vibration was more than I could stomach and I sold it for $6500. Sales prices for
A65s seems to be quite soft except for the very best examples.
cost estimate - rebuild engine and gearbox - ???
 
well well well about 10 year ago I bought a 'project'... a 1966-1968 ish 'project' from a well known lurker on these here sites for $1500 and when it arrived found bike held together with zip ties and paperwork a joke engine was junk cylinder and no pistons only shrapnel in bottom end rusty crank and OIF head...…….I went to work...got a good .040 barrel off ebay for $100 bought new cycle craft pistons for $100 and genuine hepolite iron rings for $40 ...lapped valves by hand for free......bought new rod bearings for $30...measured bushing wear and it was within spec....gearbox was OK ……frame had seashells in it...after a year of work bike was sorted with all electrical upgrades and other stuff...……...I have about $2500 in it and with 4k miles on 'rebuild' it still buzzes down the road just fine...……..what I am saying is take bike apart down to nuts and bolts and start afresh and expect setbacks but nice reward when victory is achieved,,,,,,,if this was easy anybody could do it..
cost estimate - rebuild engine and gearbox - ???

cost estimate - rebuild engine and gearbox - ???
 
Having raced an A65/A70 sidecar outfit in the 2000s,I would say firstly bin the conrods,as the materail doesnt age well.Make sure you get the crank balanced correctly,and you will be amazed at how smooth they can be,and an absolute must which nobody appears to have mentioned,is make sure you shim the gearbox correctly,or they jump out of gear-usually 3rd.If you are going to use the motor normally,a well set up std timing bush will be fine,if you are going to hammer it endfeed it.SRMs work is bang on,and I would definently use one of their new High delivery pumps.No need for cast pumps,and when you bolt the pump on,use new nylocks,and a dab of loctitie,because they have been known to vibrate loose,with inevitable results.
 
Stephen Hill said:
I am not sure "how much to rebuild an engine and gearbox" is the right question.
The better questions are "Do you feel lucky?" And "How much do you want an A65?"
Do you feel lucky since you know nothing about the internal condition of the bike. And you won't know until you buy it and tear it down. And you might get lucky. And it might be a disaster.

As to how much do you want an A65 - if you really want one, you will do what it takes and pay what it costs.

The resell price on an A65 is pretty soft. But if you get lucky and you really want one............
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right! I totally understand. as for feeling lucky, as the old saying goes, "if I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all." it's not so much as wanting an A65 as I've always wanted a spitfire since I was in my 20's. being retired, today, it's more about a project and not so much the ride. I realize the engine is an unknown and I have to assume the worst. my original question was coming up with a dollar cost amount to negotiate a price. I can see how a minor rebuild to a major rebuild could be anywhere from $1K to $3K or maybe more.

I did some research on spitfires that have sold in the last 6 years. I found 23 verified sales - most from auction sites - mecum, barret-jackson, bring-a-trailer, etc. fof the 23 that sold from 2014 to present - average selling $9330 with the last few years being a little on the soft side. these seem to be VG to excellent condition spitfires. now if I use that as what it will be worth when i'm done, less restoration costs, and I figure I could drop $5 grand in this thing without batting an eye, I figure $4500 is about my absolute max. to be honest, not sure it's even worth the investment. besides, I doubt there's that much wiggle room in his asking price. don't have a warm-fuzzy this is even going to pan out.
 
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