Commandos?, Whose ya Daddy! A Cheetah 45

If Not for a very special '68 P!! Ranger I'd have bought a lawn mower instead of a Combat in '99. If ya think I'm full of it on how Harsh Ms Peel loves to turn, you will also think I'm just as full of it on how HARSH Acceleration I enjoyed. I've spared forum most those tales. How Harsh?, only took about 5 car lengths to top 50 and get air borne by road crown 3-4 ft all the way across 4 lane Fed Hwy.
Of course nothing left to shake off, mirrors to mufflers. Hoping apple didn't drop far from the tree i spent rest of my savings with no work in sight on a Combat.
Hehe, P11's dominated desert-off road racing while produced, so that's in Commando gene expression too, in spades, whether ya express it or not.
Heck they had to handle cobble stones in England and that's meaner than THE G.
Ohhhh my do I miss it so still. Only big block blower may match it. Kawi 750 3 smokes sure couldn't : ) Good light frame bones in special alloy too.
Btw, my P!! had the very first forward canted Norton twin engine. not Cdo's.
hobot --- long read on Hybrid bastards that gave us our mongrel Commandos -----


Contemporary road tests show that in America the P.11 where it was called the 'Cheetah 45' because of its tremendous acceleration) was very highly rated and some testers were not at all concerned about how much lighter the machine felt after a rugged test. Of course it can be said that the machine was never intended to be jumped with all its ancillary equipment in place


As mentioned earlier the oil tank was a very tight fit in the frame. The later steel tanks were gas welded and sometimes with heat distortion they would not fit into the frame on the assembly line and were scrapped. The factory made new pressings with a raised seam to join the outside to the main tank and these were lip welded and did not distort on cooling. The series was halted before they were used so these tanks were put into spares stock. By this time the Commando had been in production for several months and sales were extremely encouraging, therefore it was decided to cease production of the P.11 series to concentrate on increased orders for the machine with a better sales potential. And so that concluded another series which ruled the desert for a couple of years. The first Commandos used some parts from the G.15 series, many ideas from the P.11 series, an engine developed from the Atlas, a frame designed by an outside engineer and was built in the old AMC factory by Matchless men. Oh no - not another hybrid!


skip>1:15 sec and turn up volume. LOL each time as if it was me, w/o any let ups!
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkYpWySknw8[/video]

opps - got carried away, imagine that.
look in here for rest of the story.
http://www.motorbyte.com/norton/Report.html

Yo Hobot

You been to Monson? That would be a 45 minute ride for me and it's been a million years since I was there last (1971, I think).

RS

Hobot,

You got me. I was expecting to see a P11 video and there's a Commando doing the hill climb.
I like the slanted Commando engine in the P11 as my mock up shows.


Will have to get a job soon so I can finish this one.

Will

willh said:

I like the slanted Commando engine in the P11 as my mock up shows.

Will have to get a job soon so I can finish this one.

Click to expand...

NICE!!!!!!

It looks like I'll be mothballing that rolling project 'till I can scrape together enough to get it running and sell it as a runner. I think i'll follow those lines you've got working there!

Gosh Will you really got a rough and ready good looker there to me. Love the cockey engine attitude. Wheels look to big heavy to me like paws on a puppy that ain't grown up to match yet. Candy Apple Red with fine gold dust deep down is only color I'd do a P11 - but my tastes is all in my mouth eh.

There enough of these in museums so let use em up the way they were intended and someone else can fix up the pieces after us. In lots of ways P11's over lap with Cdos/

hobot

grandpaul said:

willh said:

I like the slanted Commando engine in the P11 as my mock up shows.

Will have to get a job soon so I can finish this one.

Click to expand...

NICE!!!!!!

It looks like I'll be mothballing that rolling project 'till I can scrape together enough to get it running and sell it as a runner. I think i'll follow those lines you've got working there!

Click to expand...

Thanks,

It's not an easy fit. The front bottom cross brace had to come out and using Commando tranny with MKIII spacing leaves little room for clutch clearance. I wouldn't suggest this route to anyone, but it is what I've wanted for years so I'm making it work.
The stance is what it is because real off-road riding isn't much of an option out here but dirt roads are a plenty. The bike as it sits has a BMX-ish size and light weight feel to it that makes me think it will fulfill my years of dreaming.

Will

hobot said:

Gosh Will you really got a rough and ready good looker there to me. Love the cockey engine attitude. Wheels look to big heavy to me like paws on a puppy that ain't grown up to match yet. Candy Apple Red with fine gold dust deep down is only color I'd do a P11 - but my tastes is all in my mouth eh.

There enough of these in museums so let use em up the way they were intended and someone else can fix up the pieces after us. In lots of ways P11's over lap with Cdos/

hobot

Click to expand...

Thanks,

The wheels look bigger in the photo, they are Morris running sizes you would be proud of. When bugs are worked out the frame and triples will get candy red metallic or flake, the tanks will be bare alloy, the mags will be solid satin black as will the engine & tranny. Funny enough, my taste is all in my mouth too. Sounds a bit extravagant for a dirt road runner but it is how I want it. I had to thin the herd to be allowed to get this one so it has to fulfill a few roles. Future job providing, it will be 1-2 years before she makes noise again.

Will

Will,

The Husky tank is perfect, they are very classy.

Man, you really ought to start a new thread in the "other Classic Bikes" section and go back to square 1 with your photos. Narrate all your considerations, decisions, and frustrations in making it all come together.

THIS is a GREAT project.

For those whose cup of tea taste different, try some coffee!

that is a stunning bike. i can't wait to see more pictures. it looks like it is a bit antisocial, in a good way.

The wheels look bigger in the photo, they are Morris running sizes you would be proud of. When bugs are worked out the frame and triples will get candy red metallic or flake, the tanks will be bare alloy, the mags will be solid satin black as will the engine & tranny. Funny enough, my taste is all in my mouth too. Sounds a bit extravagant for a dirt road runner but it is how I want it. I had to thin the herd to be allowed to get this one so it has to fulfill a few roles. Future job providing, it will be 1-2 years before she makes noise again.

Click to expand...

Will I think we are blood brothers in hooligan all around handy light Commandos, that don't block much of the raw scenery in side views.
When you see what Peel's set up is you'll do a double take on how similar to yours, more than any other Commando I've seen for far.

If yours is melting the viewers here then eases my concerns I might of over done it again, nope, cool.

RS, I've no idea yet what Monson is but assume its steep dirty and dangerous place I'm missing out on.

My P!! was lowered drag bike never intended to make street legal. But it did really well in most off road conditions it didn't high center too hard on. One of its most amazing feats to me almost as pleasing as leaving chain saw gear peddling Kiwi 750s behind -
was ridding N. Fla. foot+ deep dry soft sugar sand lanes through woods hand off throttle on pure thumbing idle in 4th flowing alone at a joggers trot speed, parting sand exactly like a boat wake and lugging down to deep kettle drums bopping right on up good grades yet just a throttle snap for a rooster tailing manic if I wanted to break the trace. This thing had full race everything, tack marked at 9000, yet it was a treat in quaint college town tights.

More P!! tales to follow >>>

I'll start a thread on it in the other section when I can get back to building. Thanks for the comments.

hobot,

I'm sure Peel will be a pleaser in my minimalist eyes.
My first road bike was a modified water buffalo, (Suzi water cooled 750 triple two stroke), indicated 150 mph, but didn't like corners

Will

Hehe Will Ms Peel is out to offend everyone, so as minimalist as any Norton can be underneath Peel mostly will be cluttered up by big fairing with lowers, hard bags, luggage rack and big tank bag you can lean on while still mostly upright.
Extra mass and clutter by vital crash bars with foot forward pegs.
Stereo planned to back up her Latino low rider action on funny narrow tires.
Flame thrower exhaust is all too possible as well.

To make amends to the Norton Gods I've saved a bone stock '72 that gets nothing but Factory Good Book parts.

hobot

hobot,

You should look at FXR based H-D police bikes as they come with all your looking for and are rubber mounted to save you from the vibes. :lol:

Will

the curator of Barber's Museum had a question-answer-history lecture a few years ago in Texas at Lake of the Pines Norton rally and we were told how much of present HD's came from Norton engineer, rubber mounting to head design.
I admit Sportsters look and sound good and they come in rubber mounts with rod links but too expensive and clunky for my tastes. A flat tracker knock off certainly appeals too, but I'm imprinted on Norton Commandos, Combats especially.

Here's a Norton flat tracker that takes forum discussions right back to frame or pilot endurance d/t Vibration vs handling capacity. But I think P11's kicked their butt in late '60's.
norton-flat-tracker-t4578.html


Personally I don't really like to drift or slide much, so for play I like to go in fast enough I crash before the turn so the whole rest of the turn is done trying to relieve loads w/o crashing by the time I'm past it.
Personally I think this vibration dampening thing plays out in extra grip when there is so little remaining.

My basic impression of the P11 is unless you are hard on it, just cruising is annoying as hell, high speeds are nerve damaging and about worthless for errands with any cargo. But its as sexy as any factory ever produced.

hobot,

The FXR frame looks similar in design to the Commando, one of the best handling Harleys. Big twin lump for tractor like torque, easy cruisin. Police package gives you your fairing, radio, crashbars, and siren/lights to alert the local wildlife of your approach :wink:

I took a friends rubber mounted sportster for a ride. The epileptic bike was worse than my old commando. My old 1200 handled better but that could be because it weighed so much less and didn't have the rubber rear feel. I pass an old Commando on the road from time to time and it gets my attention way more than the hundreds of Harleys that cross my path.

I agree that as balanced with heavy internals they ought to be considered torture devices. I believe it is possible to make a P11 into a fun hour long dirt blat bike without worrying about your teeth getting loose. Longer rides or daily commuting won't be on the agenda. Comfortable modern with legs for that.

Will

Are you kidding me! A hot rod big twin dirt bike can be ridden dawn to dark in glee as long as you can stand the adrenalin rushes. Its the steady state cruise or top end speeds that will get the grips feeling the size of logs with pine needles into shoulders.

I've had both and want nothing more to do with exotic enamel crackers in real life. I am addicted to the profiles, stance and proportions that got worked out in P11's. I think the best of features and lack of features climaxed in Combats.

I'm impressed by how much pilot comfort matters to good handling as well as merging with bike for the long hauls. Since I couldn't survive long if I raced around all the time, its the super smooth ride I crave most, then limitless handling ease, then scary power, when I press it or its pressed on me.

I've spoken with honest HD riders and even Hell's Angles kicks his club for not focusing on GoldWings. If not for Commando's I'd have to take up safer hobby like base jumping or cave diving. Hope my Peel pleases ya someday.

hobot said:

Hope my Peel pleases ya someday.

Click to expand...

I'm sure it will, but I'm of no importance, it must please you. Build what you know you want. I have more appreciation for honest custom builds by the experienced than factory perfect restorations.

Will

Personally I don't think there is a more attractive compact proportioned and profiled power plant than Norton Twins cocked forward. I'm a bit vain so do want others to oh and ah a bit on Peel. Half the fun of having her in my living room is the hours of plotting and some installing and then re-doing, as much as it takes. To me just the basic components frame, engine gear box sprockets brakes tank and lever should show but hoses wires and braces etc should not intrude but lead eye back to the good stuff. P11 racers are a hard act to follow on street bikes. So my self test is try to pack in 3X more freatures in 1/3 the space.

What exciting can be said of a factory restored Commando but hey I followed the book.

hobot