commando year problem?

Edfury828 said:
I am not familiar with the term "headstock". I had assumed it meant the head. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
The thing the shaft of the yoke/yokes/triple tree/triple clamp goes through. There are probably other names for it as well but that's the name I know. Your frame number is stamped into the timing (right) side of the headstock. The Certification Label is connected to the (more-or-less) front of the headstock with hammer-drive screws. The drive side of the headstock is either clear or has a number like 00xxx stamped into it.
 
marshg246 said:
The thing the shaft of the yoke/yokes/triple tree/triple clamp goes through. There are probably other names for it as well but that's the name I know. Your frame number is stamped into the timing (right) side of the headstock. The Certification Label is connected to the (more-or-less) front of the headstock with hammer-drive screws. The drive side of the headstock is either clear or has a number like 00xxx stamped into it.
Click to expand...
Ahhh, now that I know what a headstock is, (doh!) I'll check it this afternoon. I'm at work now...
 
L.A.B. said:
333798 is 1975. There is normally a date on the frame plate.
Click to expand...
Mine is 333725 on the Frame and Engine, on the red plate the year is 1977, strange? The Bike came from Belgium (Podivyn). It was imported to Switzerland by a "Dealer" with 15000 km in 1986.
 
Marcelx said:
on the red plate the year is 1977, strange?
Click to expand...
The liquidator of Norton in order to make some money from the creditors used parts stocks to make more MK3's in 76 and 77. So very late MK3's made by the liquidator in this period could have been stamped with 76 or 77.

Here is possibly one

Frame No: 335730
Engine No: 335730

www.handh.co.uk

Lot 269 - 1977 Norton Commando 850 MkIII

Lot 269 - 1977 Norton Commando 850 MkIII
www.handh.co.uk www.handh.co.uk

https://www.luxuriousmagazine.com/untouched-1977-norton-commando-850/

But no closeup's of the red plate to show the date of manufacture.
 
kommando said:
The liquidator of Norton in order to make some money from the creditors used parts stocks to make more MK3's in 76 and 77. So very late MK3's made by the liquidator in this period could have been stamped with 76 or 77.
Click to expand...
Do you have any reference material on this? I've heard it before but haven't found anything reliable to read. I'm not doubting you in any way - just want more info - especially if any serial numbers are known.

The last entry (335791) here: https://gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/Info/CommandoSurvey.aspx is the only thing I have with an actual record that implies what you are saying.
 
I would expect a 1977 Commando to be in the 336xxx number range.
336404
www.carandclassic.com

1977 Norton Commando 850 Silver Manual, 4 speed in Rother...

1977 Norton Commando 850 Silver Manual, 4 speed in Rotherham, United Kingdom - For Sale | Car & Classic, £13,000 Brand new unused unregis...
www.carandclassic.com www.carandclassic.com


Last Commando
336539
cars.bonhams.com

Bonhams Cars : Last off the production line, unregistered, 7 miles from new,1977 Norton 850 Mk III Commando Interstate Frame no. 336539 Engine no. 336539

Few would disagree that Norton's Commando ranks as Britain's most enduring vertical twin, despite being produced over a far shorter period than the Bonneville, and there are many thousand fewer Commandos than Triumph twins. Precise figures were never published but during a lifespan extending...
cars.bonhams.com cars.bonhams.com
 
L.A.B. said:
I would expect a 1977 Commando to be in the 336xxx number range.
336404
www.carandclassic.com

1977 Norton Commando 850 Silver Manual, 4 speed in Rother...

1977 Norton Commando 850 Silver Manual, 4 speed in Rotherham, United Kingdom - For Sale | Car & Classic, £13,000 Brand new unused unregis...
www.carandclassic.com www.carandclassic.com


Last Commando
336539
cars.bonhams.com

Bonhams Cars : Last off the production line, unregistered, 7 miles from new,1977 Norton 850 Mk III Commando Interstate Frame no. 336539 Engine no. 336539

Few would disagree that Norton's Commando ranks as Britain's most enduring vertical twin, despite being produced over a far shorter period than the Bonneville, and there are many thousand fewer Commandos than Triumph twins. Precise figures were never published but during a lifespan extending...
cars.bonhams.com cars.bonhams.com
Click to expand...
What do you make of 335791 having a dispatch record: Production Batch No: 9A, Tested and Accepted: May 9, 1977, Dispatched From No. 2 Works: May 30, 1977, Silver Interstate, and the date field of the certification label marked "77"? I fully agree that it should be mid-75. Maybe stayed around unfinished for two years?

Also, is there any proof other than Bonhams saying so that 336539 was the last bike built? Any idea who built it and where?
 
Interesting, I saw the “last one off the assembly line” in the factory before I moved on to pastures new. I was buying up a load of stuff that could be useful some time in the future. It was standing next to their aborted dohc bike and I had to try but my offers of £4000 for each were not accepted. The Commando was apparently owned by the boss and he might not be pleased if they sold it and they didn’t think they could sell the other bike either . The last Commando had been neglected and all the rubber bits were in a poor state so I was thinking that it needed a total strip down and careful rebuild ( I had also been told, by one of them, that the workers building that final batch were out of work as soon as they were finished so just “nailed them together “.
 
marshg246 said:
What do you make of 335791 having a dispatch record: Production Batch No: 9A, Tested and Accepted: May 9, 1977, Dispatched From No. 2 Works: May 30, 1977, Silver Interstate, and the date field of the certification label marked "77"? I fully agree that it should be mid-75. Maybe stayed around unfinished for two years?
Click to expand...
Possibly or they used some numbers that hadn't been allocated during 1975, I don't have an explanation.
marshg246 said:
Also, is there any proof other than Bonhams saying so that 336539 was the last bike built? Any idea who built it and where?
Click to expand...
Built at Wolverhampton as far as I know.
According to Joe Seifert 336537 is the last one in the book.
According to the UK NOC 336538 was the last.
 
Edfury828 said:
I know this is not exciting but, My driveside headstock is utterly bare. No numbers.
Click to expand...
Actually, knowing that it's not there is also valuable data point. Unfortunately, when I started collecting data, I didn't know about those numbers so the first 200 or so who provided info for that info.
 
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we attempt to establish what year a Norton was built"

(and many other minutiae regarding Nortons)
 
It could be that the VIN sequence only represents when they were assembled on the line, and the date stamp signifies either passed final inspection or released for shipment (I've speculated as such before) - maybe a question for Greg and other interested parties, but does the date on the headstock typically match the dispatch date?

Add the dates on US Titles (when sold by the dealer?) and it becomes a very tangled web.
 
As the frame and engine were fabricated in different places at different times, were they both stamped when they were paired up, or was one stamped to match the other? If the latter, my money would be on the factory dusting off an old frame or old engine cases, as they sought to bring in as much cash as they could, then stamped the other bits to match.
 
Mart UK said:
As the frame and engine were fabricated in different places at different times, were they both stamped when they were paired up, or was one stamped to match the other? If the latter, my money would be on the factory dusting off an old frame or old engine cases, as they sought to bring in as much cash as they could, then stamped the other bits to match.
Click to expand...
My best guess is that the stamping timing changed over time. For instance, there are several examples of "72" bikes having the date stamped in the wrong place on the label and almost certainly when the bike was built.

Also, the recorded info varied greatly over time and sometimes it matches the label well and other times there is very little correlation between them.

My guess is that you are right at the end of production (if you can call it that). In fact, the Bonhams bike engine (336539) even looks like a restamp of the 336539 and maybe the 336539. Since we have three "last one made" in this thread and 336539 has a bike picture, engine serial picture, and a label picture, I'm assuming that neither 336537 or 336538 were really the last even though there is evidence to say that each was. Of course, either of them could have been finished after 336539!
 
B+Bogus said:
It could be that the VIN sequence only represents when they were assembled on the line, and the date stamp signifies either passed final inspection or released for shipment (I've speculated as such before) - maybe a question for Greg and other interested parties, but does the date on the headstock typically match the dispatch date?

Add the dates on US Titles (when sold by the dealer?) and it becomes a very tangled web.
Click to expand...
There is no clear answer. The dispatch records changed a lot over time and many older ones were just a journal that listed the date and serial without any mention of what the date meant. Later ones had several date fields.
 
SOME of the stories of dealers selling previous years' models as current year models are TRUE. YES, IT HAPPENED.

But, the practice was outlawed in the states (don't remember the year that happened). Did it continue after that? I can't say with even a hint of accuracy.

Also true and in a similar vein, MANY dealers would parts swap on the floor of the dealership, to close a sale. You want the SS, but with a black tank? You got it!

So, claims of "my (different from OE spec) Commando was TOTALLY ORIGINAL this way 'from the factory'!" happen from time to time
 
Edfury828 said:
Sorry for the delay, I've been keeping busy... As you can see in the pics, I found the gearbox numbers and the RH4 as well as a Capitol "T". There were no other markings that I could find anywhere else on the head.

As for what to say about the bike, maybe call it a 6-'75 stamped MK III, originally purchased in Vancouver B.C. Canada from British Cycle Company, Imported to the USA October 2023.

There was something about the frame number too... I think it was that most Commando frames had the letter "F", but mine does not? I was told by the seller, that meant the frame was made in England, but I believe L.A.B. had a different meaning for it? It's probably not worth mentioning, but I could look into it?
Click to expand...
You might try contacting the trev deeley museum in vancouver. https://deeleyexhibition.ca They may know more about your dealership.

It has been nearly twenty years since I visited it but seem to remember that that the museum evolved from a multi-marque dealer in vancouver. As I recall, quite a few bikes were still new and at least one of those was a commando. Most of the new bikes were acquired from their dealership activities and so they were probably around in the late seventies and might be either related to the dealership in question or may know about them as a competitor.

Worth a try to find more of the bikes provenance.
 

Similar threads

R
Commando 961 sport - Year 2014
2
Replies
27
Views
674
Richard G
R
C
1975 Mk3 Commando indicator problem
Replies
11
Views
752
chrisf1
C
C
1975 Mk3 Commando ignition warning light problem
Replies
18
Views
1,553
Thomasa
Thomasa
Vicente
Norton Commando 961 electric problem
Replies
6
Views
1,312
TonyA
TonyA
Tom P
  • Locked
New Commando owner with bad sumping problem
2 3
Replies
46
Views
3,655
L.A.B.
L.A.B.
Back
Top