Clutch drag (again)

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M

Myford

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Oct 23, 2009
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Hi all,
Just got about 30 mile on the clock after restoring, & I've got clutch drag, I'm pretty sure its the clutch centre "notched", as sometimes its major drag, almost to the point of stalling with brakes on! then next stop it's sweet as a nut, no drag at all. I didn't replace the centre at the time as the primary was full of syrup, & I put any drag issues down to this.
My question is this, I've read a lot of threads on here about the need to replace the centre, but what about the outer with the sprocket? do the internal splines not wear? or do they wear but not cause a problem? I don't want to replace more than I need to.
What do the experts think.
Terry
 
Your primary was full of syrup? What ever do you mean? Have you had the clutch apart? If the clutch center is bad, it is very easy to tell. The outer (clutch basket ) rarely wares out unless the outside gears go bad. Are your friction plates contaminated(oiled up)?
 
Ha, I new someone would ask me that, I know thats the sensible route, but I'm too much of a ludite I'm afraid. but after no miles at all with ATF I don't think its a sticky oil issue.
Terry
 
Before you spend time and money on new clutch parts, try a clutch pushrod seal first. Gearbox oil getting onto the clutch plates is a major contributor to "sticky clutch". Clean the plates up then install this. Check with RGM or Norvil (Les Emory), suspect they supply the item.

http://www.britcycle.com/products/040373A.htm
 
Myford said:
Hi all,
I didn't replace the centre at the time as the primary was full of syrup, & I put any drag issues down to this.
Terry
Click to expand...

So was the clutch center notched or not? It had to have been inspected at some point.
 
Chances are, the centre will need replacing, but I don't think the drum splines wear at the same rate as the centre splines, presumably because of the greater diameter of the drum, there are many more splines to spread the load?
The simple answer would be to check to see if there are any obvious notches in the drum splines?
 
swooshdave said:
Myford said:
Hi all,
I didn't replace the centre at the time as the primary was full of syrup, & I put any drag issues down to this.
Terry
Click to expand...

So was the clutch center notched or not? It had to have been inspected at some point.
Click to expand...
Yes Dave it was, but in my defence, for some reason I got it into my head that the notching would just make it a bit grabby, I didn't appreciate that the plates are in effect jambing in the notches, preventing the clutch from freeing.
There are a couple of other jobs that need doing but I was hoping to put them off till the winter, I just want to use it a bit this summer, but I can't live with this clutch, it's verging on the dangerous.
Les,
thanks for the info on the outer, hopefully that'l be ok.
Terry
 
pvisseriii said:
Your primary was full of syrup? What ever do you mean? Have you had the clutch apart? If the clutch center is bad, it is very easy to tell. The outer (clutch basket ) rarely wares out unless the outside gears go bad. Are your friction plates contaminated(oiled up)?
Click to expand...
Sorry, By syrup I mean incredibly thick, old oil, yes the centre was notched, hopefully the basket will be ok, I did degrease the plates before re assembly. As I said to swooshdave I didn't appreciate the syptoms/implications of the notching.
Terry
 
Terry, it sounds like it could be time for a new clutch hub and Barnett plates.
Your's are likely shot being all notched up and sticking.

You can probably just deglaze the steel plates and reuse them.

The oil could also be coming in from the mainshaft seal needing replacement?
 
highdesert said:
Terry, it sounds like it could be time for a new clutch hub and Barnett plates.
Your's are likely shot being all notched up and sticking.

You can probably just deglaze the steel plates and reuse them.

The oil could also be coming in from the mainshaft seal needing replacement?
Click to expand...
Hi,
Its a new seal, & the ATF level hasn't gone up (bare in mind its done hardly any miles), yes the tags on the plates may be worn, whats the idea with Barnett plates?
as I said I'm a bit of a Ludite. Like a lot of guys on here I'm now in my 50s & rode a pretty much stock 850 in the 70s, now, I can see the advantage in upgrading some things, but......
Terry
 
Myford said:
Its a new seal, & the ATF level hasn't gone up (bare in mind its done hardly any miles), yes the tags on the plates may be worn, whats the idea with Barnett plates?
Click to expand...

So, what plates are in there at the moment?

I must admit I'm one of those people who seems to think there isn't that much wrong with the original bronze plates if everything is set up as it should be.

I think we've heard both good and bad things about Barnett plates here before now, and in any case as you live in the UK, Surflex plates are probably easier to find and just as good as the Barnetts-if not better?
The old original steel plates are better quality than new AN ones, and having the old steel plates lightly sand blasted, or even sanding them with sandpaper can at least help to reduce sticking problems.
 
I had a very seriously notched center for years. The problem was that the inner spines wore out in about 5000 miles. The rest of the disk was perfect. Have you checked to see that the spring is lifting evenly ? That caused drag for me.

Greg
 
Thanks for the info guys, it has the stock bronze plates at the mo, & like Les I don't feel the need to change unless its a last resort. So I'll replace the centre, give the steel plates a light dusting in the blaster, & give the whole unit a careful exam, which if I'm honest I should have done the first time!
I'll let you know how it goes.
Terry
 
Terry, what shape are the splines in on your stock bronze plates?

Guessing they are worn from the original square to small points?

If so, time to order in some new ones, especially with a nice new hub they will wear even faster because they will rattle around without being held in the new hub like new plates will.
 
I have replaced both the hub and basket on the clutch of my '74 and it made a big difference. Notching was obvious.
 
Just to let you know, I put a new clutch centre in, & gave the steal plates a light "dusting" in the blaster, & I now have a silky smooth, non dragging non grabbing clutch. I didn't change the basket. I did buy a centre nut with the seal built in, but didn't fit it as it appeared to need a longer pushrod to work, or am I missing something?
Thanks for all the advice,
Terry
 
Myford said:
Just to let you know, I put a new clutch centre in, & gave the steal plates a light "dusting" in the blaster, & I now have a silky smooth, non dragging non grabbing clutch.
Click to expand...


That's good news about the clutch.





Myford said:
I did buy a centre nut with the seal built in, but didn't fit it as it appeared to need a longer pushrod to work, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Is it the RGM one?
 
Myford said:
Just to let you know, I put a new clutch centre in, & gave the steal plates a light "dusting" in the blaster, & I now have a silky smooth, non dragging non grabbing clutch. I didn't change the basket. I did buy a centre nut with the seal built in, but didn't fit it as it appeared to need a longer pushrod to work, or am I missing something?
Thanks for all the advice,
Terry
Click to expand...

Hi Terry,

Good news, same question was the centre nut from RGM? I got one from RGM & I don't think it's for a Commando, I think it's for a Dommi. They offered to take it back & turn it down so it will fit. I'll do this myself when I next strip the clutch.

Did you get a hardened clutch centre? If yes who supplied same.

Now get out on that bike & put some miles on it :mrgreen:

Kevin
 
Myford said:
Thanks for the info guys, it has the stock bronze plates at the mo, & like Les I don't feel the need to change unless its a last resort. So I'll replace the centre, give the steel plates a light dusting in the blaster, & give the whole unit a careful exam, which if I'm honest I should have done the first time!
I'll let you know how it goes.
Terry
Click to expand...

That sounds right to me. Clean it, replace KNOWN bad parts, re-evaluate. Repeat as necessary.
 
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