Another Tri-spark Complaint

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Beach said:
I have Rita system I'm thinking about using. Any feedback on it?
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Lucas RITA is a good, reliable, but basic unit. It should perform well, but I seem to recall they have a relatively heavy draw compared to modern options. They also don’t have any idle support facility or anti kick back function.

Re the post above about not using dual coils with RITA, I don’t know what the issues are with this, but (perhaps rather ignorantly) I have run them in the past with dual coils without issue.

Edit: I meant dual outlet coils...
 
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I went through two Tri-Sparks. Matt was kind and generous. He gave me a full refund. But he was not willing at that time to send me another Tri-Spark unless I upgraded my coils. This seems to be another luck of the draw as to whether one's stock coils cause a problem or not. There is some explanation regarding this in the following thread:

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/trispark-warranty.15121/

I was pretty sure that the CNW web site had a declaration regarding this but maybe not. So, I'm uncertain whether the no warranty policy is still in effect. Regardless since that time Tri-Spark has been offering stock appearance coils that one could presume to be compatible.

Russ
 
Fast Eddie said:
Lucas RITA is a good, reliable, but basic unit. It should perform well, but I seem to recall they have a relatively heavy draw compared to modern options. They also don’t have any idle support facility or anti kick back function.

Re the post above about not using dual coils with RITA, I don’t know what the issues are with this, but (perhaps rather ignorantly) I have run them in the past with dual coils without issue.
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I ran a RITA with stock dual coils for many years on both a Mk3 and my Mk2 with little problem save for the occasional nasty ass kick back.
 
gortnipper said:
I ran a RITA with stock dual coils for many years on both a Mk3 and my Mk2 with little problem save for the occasional nasty ass kick back.
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Never ever had a kickback with my lucas Rita , had one now and then with the Boyer and that was with a fully charged battery
It was actually the reason I changed ignition I never knew when it would kickback sometimes it would sometimes it wouldn't
I put the rita on and no more problems with kickbacks
 
bill said:
3rd stator in less than 15,000 miles. i slotted the points cover to give the 2nd stator some air flow and it still went out. after the 1st one went out i got a spare to Carry with me. that was a good thing as it went out last year while on a ride. i e mailed trispark about the outrageous cost of a replacement stator being higher than a complete pazon system and he offered a more reasonable price.so i still have a spare in the tank bag but when this one fails it will be replaced with a pazon and someone will get a deal on a complete trispark with a new stator.
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Exactly the same with me. My TR7 is now on its third Trispark stator / module, in 13,000 miles. The first packed up at just over 3000 miles. The second lasted a little longer and gave a bit more warning (power & exhaust note changed, typical of retarded timing - first time this happened about half a mile before it totally packed up but second time it gave me a day). I've carried a spare ever since the first failure, which cost me a whole holiday)

The third one has been on for about 4500 miles and is still working, but no way will I ever waste my money on another. I'll get a Pazon. Maybe I'll carry a set of points and AAU with me when I go abroad.
 
Anyone had experience with the Vape EI? They call it the new genuine Wassell, and the new Wassell/Vape. Info goes on to say,..." kit comes with a CNC machined fully enclosed stator plate! Which means no messy and exposed wires! Not even the Boyer or Pazon can offer that! Also has the smallest computer transistor box which means you can practically mount it anywhere!"
https://www.classicbritishspares.com/products/wassell-vape-electronic-ignition
 
Yup...had the Vape-Wassell on bike for a year now. Did 4000 miles on it. No issues, no kickbacks. Believe it was at a very nice price point when I bought it from EuroJumbalya.
 
Tigernut said:
Exactly the same with me. My TR7 is now on its third Trispark stator / module, in 13,000 miles. The first packed up at just over 3000 miles. The second lasted a little longer and gave a bit more warning (power & exhaust note changed, typical of retarded timing - first time this happened about half a mile before it totally packed up but second time it gave me a day). I've carried a spare ever since the first failure, which cost me a whole holiday)

The third one has been on for about 4500 miles and is still working, but no way will I ever waste my money on another. I'll get a Pazon. Maybe I'll carry a set of points and AAU with me when I go abroad.
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I'm very curious about the frequency and correlates involved in the failures that are being reported. I'm currently running 3 tri spark units (commando, TR7, T120) and have had no issues, but am not betting on luck of the draw. Maybe we could ask Jerry to start a thread for this issue? I think if we could pool data from different users regarding their individual set ups maybe we could identify what's going on, at the very least it may help Tri Spark identify problem set ups.

I'm running all my units with dual output coils (2 dyna's and one accel), charging systems are up to snuff, all three are directly wired (bypassing all kill switches etc.), all related wiring is well insulated, I have a small pieces of foam under the points covers to keep the vibes down, and I avoid spark testing (plug on head)
 
The Wassell set is working well on my non-Commando twin. Seems to tolerate a low-ish battery.

The stator does look robust.
 
"I think if we could pool data from different users regarding their individual set ups maybe we could identify what's going on, at the very least it may help Tri Spark identify problem set ups."

This would be a key piece(s) of data. Is there anything common to these "failures?" Perhaps there is some component or combination of components that doesn't work and play well with the Trispark. Also, most Nortons have been electrically modified to some degree from stock. Heck, maybe something generally thought of as an electrical "upgrade" is causing failures.
 
MexicoMike said:
"I think if we could pool data from different users regarding their individual set ups maybe we could identify what's going on, at the very least it may help Tri Spark identify problem set ups."

This would be a key piece(s) of data. Is there anything common to these "failures?" Perhaps there is some component or combination of components that doesn't work and play well with the Trispark. Also, most Nortons have been electrically modified to some degree from stock. Heck, maybe something generally thought of as an electrical "upgrade" is causing failures.
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I only have anecdotal observations of one failure on a mate's bike. His unit was working fine for a few seasons until he was attempting to diagnose a weak spark issue (turned out to be a fractured wire in the kill circuit). Anyway, in one weekend of going over the bike he spark tested the ignition repeatedly with the plugs out and laying on the head. When the problem was finally found/corrected... the tri spark unit had failed. He ended up with a replacement but was told that the spark testing was what likely caused the unit to fail... this was new info for me as I've been testing spark that way for years.
 
acadian said:
He ended up with a replacement but was told that the spark testing was what likely caused the unit to fail... this was new info for me as I've been testing spark that way for years.
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For many years spark testing of transistor driven coil is a known way to start the slow decline to eventual death of the transistor.
When you hold excessive gap or pull the wire/plug so far... it fails to spark ...it creates a huge reflected electrical wave that is fed back to the transistor and "burns" a little hole in the semiconductor material. This failure point will eventually heat up and cook the surrounding region, even though it will function "for a while". Then it dies... some times open... or sometimes short.
Same principle taught in ESD training.
When I test coils I always use points on my distributor machine. I have a moving spark gap that I always get to the point that it fails to spark 17-40KV. It only took killing one analog boyer for me to figure this out.
 
My old type Tri-spark died on me on tick over at home lucky for me , i contacted Tri-spark and had a new type unit sent over , the one with self test feature , all very expensive when you add import dutys , i dont think this has ever run as smoothly as is should , what i have found is the gap between rotor and stator is in excess of the 2.6 mm max recommended ,its about 3.1mm, the rotor sits on the cam taper so no adjustment there , the only option is to machine 1mm from the timing cover recess , there is no excessive end float on the cam shaft so maybe the rotor was poorly machined in the first place , the motor does not eight stroke or miss at any revs so i guess the pick ups in the stator are operating ok , it s on tick over it seems lumpy !,
Tri-spark say 2mm give or take 0.6mm ,
 
Colin, I've read somewhere but cannot seem to find it now, that Boyer recommend using a strip of drink tin wrapped around the taper in order to bring the rotor up slightly if it needs it. No reason why it shouldn't work on a Tri-Spark too I guess.


Cheers,

cliffa.
 
Is there anything common to these "failures?
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Assuming installation was careful and correctly done, secure wiring, recommended coils, etc
Then from what I have read and my own experience with two of the early Trisparks, the common thread was heat causing loss of ignition
in both of my failures, allowing the unit to fully cool off allowed restarting as if nothing happened
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From what I have read, this early unit overheating has been cured, I have had no problems at in in the past six years now
 
Its a wonder Trispark is still in business with all the failures that he had to replace for free, having a busness is about making money, if there was so many problems with his systems them why has he not tired to fix that problem for good, no good traveling long distants to be worring about a unit failing without warning.
In 43 years of riding my Norton I had one Rita unit fail within 13 months and a Boyar fail but it wasn't the Boyar's fault, fire don't do them any good, but it failed a week after the fire and a 100 miles from home, the replacement Boyar was on my bike for over 30 years without any problems before replacing with a JH maggie.

Ashley
 
cliffa said:
Colin, I've read somewhere but cannot seem to find it now, that Boyer recommend using a strip of drink tin wrapped around the taper in order to bring the rotor up slightly if it needs it. No reason why it shouldn't work on a Tri-Spark too I guess.


Cheers,

cliffa.
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Found it ..

http://www.boyerbransden.com/faultfinding.html

Under "I Have Sparks On Switching On And Off But Not On Cranking"


Cheers,

cliffa.
 
ashman said:
Its a wonder Trispark is still in business with all the failures that he had to replace for free, having a busness is about making money, if there was so many problems with his systems them why has he not tired to fix that problem for good, no good traveling long distants to be worring about a unit failing without warning.
In 43 years of riding my Norton I had one Rita unit fail within 13 months and a Boyar fail but it wasn't the Boyar's fault, fire don't do them any good, but it failed a week after the fire and a 100 miles from home, the replacement Boyar was on my bike for over 30 years without any problems before replacing with a JH maggie.

Ashley
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Given the number of reported failures of Boyers couldn't you say the same thing about them?
 
I am not saying one is better than the others anything electronic can fail, I had a good run out of my old Boyer and as far as I know its still going I gave it to a mate to put in his Norton but he has sold it on now, the reason I got rid of it as wanted to run no battery and have mim wiring on my Norton as well weight saving, my Boyer was a older model as it was put in way back in the late 70s, not sure about the newer Boyer's as haven't had nothing to do with them.
The less things I rely on power on my bike the better in my opinion.

Ashley
 
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