Alton starter, Norton switchgear issue. (2020)

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Thanks Folkes, done the wiring to death as I fitted a Dave Taylor head steady and had to go through everything under the tank many times I hasten to add.
The issue with the right switch started before this though.
 
Whip off the tank, disconnect that switch and put your meter on continuity connected to the white and white / red and see and you get when you operate the switch. Also check that there isn't a path to ground. (Maybe a contact is touching the bars).
 
this is where a multi meter comes in. I would start at the solinoid and see what you have for voltage you have there with the wire connected. you should see battery voltage. if not than start working back to and through the switch till you see no voltage drop. you cannot test this on the ohm scale it has to have the actual load on the circuit.
 
Had the solenoid on my Alton go bad, made the right clicking right noises but the contacts didn't always connect.
Replaced with a small car type of Ebay.
It had the added benefit of having an auxiliary switch so that the ballast resistor could be bypassed when cranking (I've gone back to points ignition)
 
peter12 said:
I think it’s the switch Bill so either going to replace over the winter or fit a relay.
Click to expand...

When you say "fit a relay," are you saying you are adding an additional relay or going to replace the Alton relay with a different relay? A second relay in the circuit would never be needed or useful. If the Alton relay makes the circuit/engages the starter when you connect the small wire from the relay directly to the battery, the problem is in the handlebar switch OR its connections to the battery/relay.
 
Ok, I’m getting conflicting information. All the checks I’ve done show it’s the switchgear. There’s nothing wrong with the solenoid, I believe.
I will change the switch gear when I upgrade the wiring.
I was advised to use a relay to protect the switchgear. If this isn’t necessary it must be the switchgear.
 
You HAVE a relay - the one supplied by Alton. If the confusion is in the terminology - Solenoid vs Relay - they are the same thing. An electro-mechanical relay - like what is being discussed - uses a solenoid to relay (transfer) high current loads from from the battery to the starter motor without that load going through the switch that activates the circuit.

As was pointed out earlier, over the years the device, when used in a starter system, is often referred to in speaking as a "starter solenoid." But if you look it up in most parts books, it will be referred to as a starter relay! Go figure...;)
 
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To try to sort out the difference between SOLENOID and RELAY:

A solenoid is simply a coil of wire used as an electromagnet. With a "starter solenoid", the solenoid converts electrical energy into a mechanical movement e.g. to engage a bendix. This is what you have with a Trident T160.
A relay uses a solenoid to operate switch contacts, so that you can control a heavy current device i.e. starter motor, from a low current-rated handlebar switch. It isn't surprising that these terms have been interchanged when talking about starters. The Alton uses a starter relay and the T160 a starter solenoid but on the surface they look like the same thing.
 
pdl999 said:
With a "starter solenoid", the solenoid converts electrical energy into a mechanical movement e.g. to engage a bendix.
Click to expand...

Right, a starter solenoid moves a gear to engage the motor into the flywheel (or whatever mechanism is connected to the crank). It also serves as a high current relay to spupply the starter motor power. They are physically attached to the starter. The Alton starter doesn't have one, The cNw starter does.

pdl999 said:
A relay uses a solenoid to operate switch contacts, so that you can control a heavy current device i.e. starter motor, from a low current-rated handlebar switch.
Click to expand...

Alton uses a high current relay to supply power to the starter. It isn't a "solenoid" in the normal sense. My cNw e-start employs an additional starter relay to isolate the start button switch from the solenoid, and it's fused for 20 amps.
 
This is getting too confusing. The point is, the Alton kit needs nothing OTHER than what is supplied in the kit to work with the OEM Norton spare switch.
 
And the OEM spare switch either works or not. It is about as basic as it gets. Test whether current passes through it when pushed and
stops when released. It is also basic and simple simple simple to disassemble, clean, lube with dielectric grease and reassemble.
 
The role of the relay that is included in the Alton kit is to take a low current through the handlebar switch and use to energise a very small electromagnet that will move the contacts that carry the high current to the starter motor.

Alton starter, Norton switchgear issue. (2020)

The contacts in the switch can certainly handle this kind of current, you headlamp, indicators and horn use way more!

The starter button is fed by the same W (white) wire that feeds the kill button.
And your engine isn’t cutting out once your up and running.

So it can only be a dirty contact on the starter switch itself, or a break in the WR (white/red) wire or the bullet connector that is causing your problem.
 
Rebuild kits are available for the Lucas switchgear.
As for the T160 having a starter relay, yes it does - under the seat, but it also has a Bendix to engage the starter drive gear and simultaneously spin the starter.
As already said - different.
Multi-meter very useful for checking for resistance in the wiring; sometimes pulling the connector can clear a dry joint and fix the issue, but better for diagnosis to check the wiring in situ first.
 
I will say it again, you need to load test the circuit NOT an ohm check as it will not show how much load the circuit is capable of. an easy test is to load the circuit with a headlight bulb or as i stated earlier pin it out with your meter on dc volts starting at either end of the circuit with everything connected to the circuit.

B+Bogus said:
Multi-meter very useful for checking for resistance in the wiring; sometimes pulling the connector can clear a dry joint and fix the issue, but better for diagnosis to check the wiring in situ first.
Click to expand...
 
bill said:
I will say it again, you need to load test the circuit NOT an ohm check as it will not show how much load the circuit is capable of. an easy test is to load the circuit with a headlight bulb or as i stated earlier pin it out with your meter on dc volts starting at either end of the circuit with everything connected to the circuit.
Click to expand...

Quite recently, I have found myself using my multimeter on the "amps" setting quite often - very useful for checking the load on circuits. My cheapy Harbor Freight multimeter will handle up to 10 amps, which will cover nearly all the current consumers on your bike (except the starter, of course). That way you have quantitative results, not just 'will the circuit light a bulb?' Hope this helps.
 
bill said:
I will say it again, you need to load test the circuit NOT an ohm check
Click to expand...

We're not talking about the same thing...
I'm not knocking the validity of your statement, but checking a live circuit won't identify the point of interest.
If there are two switches and three connectors in the circuit you'll still have to bell it out to identify the source of the issue.
 
if you read my first reply it states that you will have to work your way through the system connectors and switches till you find where the voltage drop is at
 
peter12 said:
I have an Alton starter fitted for 3 years. I have used the spare button for the starter and a month or so ago It started to develop flat battery type symptoms. Also there was a delay from pressing button till it turned the motor.
I fitted a new battery but nothing changed.
I went through the wiring with a fine tooth comb and changed it to the horn switch. Mostly it works fine but yesterday halfway through a 300 mile ride it did the same. It was exactly as if the battery was not charging.
Kicked the bike to start no problem
After a lunch break the starter worked fine.
If I jump the starter solenoid positive (input) directly to the battery I have no issues.
I’m tempted to buy new switchgear but wondered what people’s thoughts were before another expense.
I’ve thoroughly cleaned the switchgear out.
Click to expand...

Hi Peter - were you able to get to the bottom of your problem? Curious about the solution if you did. Thanks!
 
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