Alton eStart rotor marking

I received my Alton starter kit and was checking to be sure all parts were there. I noticed that the rotor does not have a timing mark so I'll need to "install" one. I was wondering if folks who have done this went to the trouble of using a degree wheel to determine the exact position - or if it it was generally felt that marking the rotor to agree with the old one is "good enough" for these motors. A couple of years ago, with a degree wheel, I found that the oem rotor timing mark was within 1/2 degree. So I'm figuring I will just manually turn the engine so that the old rotor mark is somewhere on the scale and, when installing the new rotor, mark it at that same spot. Of course, this means that any mis-mark by eye (parallax, whatever) could increase the error slightly but I don't really think on these engines that it will make any operational difference.

What did others do, degree wheel or eyeball method?

I have the exact same problem in what is an otherwise nice kit.
It is not rocket science but believe ALTON should really provide the definitive answer.
Come on Alton!
Aris

Easy enough to mark with a degree wheel, doesn't the installation include the settings?

I think this may be the only thing they forgot, but it will be fixed in the new batches of starter kits. I always relied on the markings of the old Lucas rotor, but never questionned its accruacy, when I built my Featherbed framed Commando powered café racer, I had to make my own marks and pointer since all the original drive train had been replaced. I didn't find that too hard to do and what I did is probably more accruate than the old Lucas stuff so putting your own marks on the Alton rotor should not be that much of a problem.

Jean

"Easy enough to mark with a degree wheel, doesn't the installation include the settings?"

Not as easy as it would be with a timing mark already there! Plus, the installation instructions don't mention it at all. I agree it's not difficult to do but it should be in the instructions because if you don't realize up front that you need to do it, it will be a total PITA when you decide you need to check/adjust timing somewhere down the road.

As I said in an earlier post, I plan to just rotate the engine until the lucas rotor timing mark is somewhere on the scale, remove the oem alternator/rotor, install the new rotor and mark it at the same scale number, then remove it and proceed with the teardown/installation. Since the Lucas rotor is less than 1/2 degree off (previously checked with degree wheel), I see no reason to bother with a degree wheel again.

I suppose Alton could argue that due to the factory variation in Nortons - who knows if a standard mark would be correct for all bikes - if the oem scale is slightly off, then the timing will be off. After thinking about it, if I was Alton, I would specifically provide instructions stating that the installer is responsible to mark the rotor for the individual installation using a degree wheel.

Come to think of it, if your engine is presently timed, and you won't be removing the ignition, just note the static position of the rotor when the ignition dot is in the window.

Do the starter installation, install the new rotor, align the ignition's dot in the window (or light with TriSpark), and mark the new rotor in that spot where it aligns with the needle in the timing window, in the same way thre old rotor did with the engine off.

(or is that what you just said?)

The reason I plan to mark the new rotor as the FIRST step in the process is because I believe that some rotation of the engine will probably occur during the work just by following the instructions. If the new rotor is marked first, it will eliminate having to figure it out later which would necessitate either putting the oem rotor back on temporarily to line up the mark with the scale or doing the degree wheel thing.

I do find it curious that Alton makes no mention of this whatsoever - at least in the instructions that came with my kit (serial number 2-60).

mike996 said:

The reason I plan to mark the new rotor as the FIRST step in the process is because I believe that some rotation of the engine will probably occur during the work just by following the instructions. If the new rotor is marked first, it will eliminate having to figure it out later which would necessitate either putting the oem rotor back on temporarily to line up the mark with the scale or doing the degree wheel thing.

I do find it curious that Alton makes no mention of this whatsoever - at least in the instructions that came with my kit (serial number 2-60).

Click to expand...

As I mentionned, it is an oversight, it will be fixed in the new kits.

Jean

Seems like the designer(s) were not aware that a Commando's dynamic ignition timing is set using a mark on the rotor. One would think that would have been sorted out with the first couple of installed kits when the new Alton/Norton owners said, "How do I set the timing now?"

OTOH, and more importantly, the kit looks absolutely superb and I'm really looking forward to installing it. Sadly, I won't have the opportunity to do that until the 18th (I won't be where the bike is until then).

When I installed one with Hervé Hamon, we just took everything off, put the kit in and started the bike, we never had to look at the timing so it never dawned on me or him to check for the timing mark. It was probably the same for them when they put the kits together, they started with running bikes and worked on getting the starter system perfected. If they had started with a built from the ground up Commando, they would have seen right away that the timing marks were needed.

If that is the only bug, they are doing very good, anyone tried windows 8?

Jean

I just received an Alton kit. Will install it this winter. Do you gentlemen know where on the web I might find the recommended battery, YTX20L-BS 12V-18ah? I have looked on several sites but cannot find this battery. Thanks, Craig

From what I read the SHorai 18AH seemed to be the way to go so I purchased one of them from Old Britts which I'll be installing with the Alton in a few weeks. Pricy but amazing - batt weighs nearly nothing. Scroll down a bit to see the batts and info here: http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_main.html

Mike, Thanks for the heads up on the Old Brits site. I forgot that they had battery choices. Looks like the 18ah is the ticket. Craig

mike996 said:

From what I read the SHorai 18AH seemed to be the way to go so I purchased one of them from Old Britts which I'll be installing with the Alton in a few weeks. Pricy but amazing - batt weighs nearly nothing. Scroll down a bit to see the batts and info here: http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_main.html

Click to expand...

How will that match up with your stator output? For e start, the battery should be awesome. Are you going with a 3 phase charging system?

High rate of discharge batteries are inherently dangerous. I would think that fusing could be tricky. You want it to pop that starter yet the dangers of over heating these things are real. I would thing a 14ah would be more than adequate, less expensive and even lighter.

I have a Lucas 3 phase alternator now and, at least per specs, the Alton alternator has less output than the 3 phase Lucas. So in that regard, I am "downsizing" my charging capacity when I go to the Alton. However, folks with the Shorai/Alton have posted that it works great. Also, some have reported that the "claimed" 180W output of the 3 phase Lucas is somewhat exaggerated (I don't KNOW that to be true) and that the Alton single phase Alt actually produces more power.

I'll do voltage readings after installation to determine the difference between the Lucas 3 phase and the Alton single phase. Here is the current charging voltages for my bike with the Lucas 3 phase from a couple of years ago - I didn't check above 3k RPM:

Charging (voltage at battery), headlight off:
Idle (900RPM) 12.6v
1500RPM 14.6
2000 RPM 15.0
3000 RPM 15.17

Headlight on, low beam:
Idle 11.6
1500 11.9
2000 12.71
3000 14.12

Headlight on, high beam
Idle 11.38
1500 11.7
2000 12.2
3000 13.35

mike996 said:

I have a Lucas 3 phase alternator now and, at least per specs, the Alton alternator has less output than the 3 phase Lucas. So in that regard, I am "downsizing" my charging capacity when I go to the Alton. However, folks with the Shorai/Alton have posted that it works great. Also, some have reported that the "claimed" 180W output of the 3 phase Lucas is somewhat exaggerated (I don't KNOW that to be true) and that the Alton single phase Alt actually produces more power.

Click to expand...

That sort of begs the question, what will you be doing with the old three phase system?

Well, regardless of output difference, even if the Lucas can produce more power, it has to go since it cannot stay with Alton starter. However, one of the beauties of the Alton is that the bike can be returned to totally original condition at any time so I would keep the Lucas parts on the shelf. An LED headlight - if one existed that looks ok on the bike - would probably ensure there was no issue but I'll do the voltage readings after the installation. Who knows, I MIGHT end up with a Shorai battery for sale if the Alton voltage can't support it. The voltages I get with 3-phase Lucas is fine (per Old Britts) for the Shorai. We'll see... But as noted, a previous Alton conversion post states the Alton/Shorai works great though no voltages were posted.