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About the primary oil in the Norton Command 750
- Thread starter akira shimomura
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NORTSTER1974
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Yes, running Ford ATF is fine with bronze plates. Used to use Miller High Life 7 oz pony bottles as a measuring device since they were readily available.
When using Barnett plates, I always ran Dexron ATF. I run the Dexron in the Harley too. That has Kevlar plates.
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I would like to know why you use ATF as primary oil? Is it because it is soft? I recently filled up my car with "Honda GP 10W-30" as primary oil. What do you think about this?
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One advantage of ATF instead of engine oil is that it is easy to differentiate the two. If you have a leak, you can quickly tell if it is engine oil or the ATF. Of course engine oil is the "correct" lubricant per Norton but I have also found that with ATF I have never had any clutch issues as far as slipping clutches or any need to occasionally clean the clutch discs as is often mentioned as being needed periodically. I have never needed to clean the clutch discs/steels.
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I see. I understand very well. Thank you very much. I will also change my primary oil to ATF from Honda GP right away. Do you have any recommended ATF? I would prefer something that is available in Japan.
Also, just to confirm, I understand that the Commando clutch is a dry clutch, is that correct? Please let me know.
ashman
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The prime use of oil in the primary case is only to lube the primary chain, the clutch is designed to run dry and the stock Commando clutch can run with a dry belt drive, but most owners run fiber clutch plates for belt drives I have used my stock clutch plates wet and dry with both chain and belt but the stock plates tend to bite quicker when letting the clutch out with a dry belt drive.
As for the oil in the primary 7floz is the max, I run between 5 to 7floz in mine as the oil will splash on the chain when running, in the manual Norton say to use normal motor oil in the primary which is a bit thick for the clutch plates, from buying my Norton new in 1976 (1974 850 Commando) my bike suffered slipping clutch from near new, so after a few years of experimenting with different oils in the primary the ATF was the best and have been using it in the primary since the early 80s, ATF-F is designed for the older Ford transmissions that had clutch plates, but lately I been having troubles finding the ATF-F so the last few years I just been using normal ATF and it works just as well without the ATF-F formular, so since using ATF since 1980s I haven't had clutch slippage and no sticking clutch plates.
But as usual you still got to do maintenance of your clutch plates as well primary as part of long term servicing and to make sure the chain, sprockets, ALT and Rota is all running good, everything in my clutch is stock from the factory from new except I had to replace the clutch centre (knoched from wear and a new pressure plate) as well a sealed clutch housing bearing, but my bronze and steel plates are all original from the factory and it was an everyday rider for most of its life.
A lot on here also have troubles with gearbox oil migrating down the clutch push rod that also can cause clutch problems, some install a Dyna Dave clutch rod seal to stop this, I have never had the problem but I measure my oil that I put in the GB with a measuring cup as well I put grease on my clutch push rod, so after 48+ years no GB oil in the primary, works for me.
After 48+ years I have learned a lot about my Norton and keeping up the maintenance when needed is very important to long life with very little breakages/wear, it's all about looking after your old bike and having fun doing it and getting to know your Norton.
Ashley
As for the oil in the primary 7floz is the max, I run between 5 to 7floz in mine as the oil will splash on the chain when running, in the manual Norton say to use normal motor oil in the primary which is a bit thick for the clutch plates, from buying my Norton new in 1976 (1974 850 Commando) my bike suffered slipping clutch from near new, so after a few years of experimenting with different oils in the primary the ATF was the best and have been using it in the primary since the early 80s, ATF-F is designed for the older Ford transmissions that had clutch plates, but lately I been having troubles finding the ATF-F so the last few years I just been using normal ATF and it works just as well without the ATF-F formular, so since using ATF since 1980s I haven't had clutch slippage and no sticking clutch plates.
But as usual you still got to do maintenance of your clutch plates as well primary as part of long term servicing and to make sure the chain, sprockets, ALT and Rota is all running good, everything in my clutch is stock from the factory from new except I had to replace the clutch centre (knoched from wear and a new pressure plate) as well a sealed clutch housing bearing, but my bronze and steel plates are all original from the factory and it was an everyday rider for most of its life.
A lot on here also have troubles with gearbox oil migrating down the clutch push rod that also can cause clutch problems, some install a Dyna Dave clutch rod seal to stop this, I have never had the problem but I measure my oil that I put in the GB with a measuring cup as well I put grease on my clutch push rod, so after 48+ years no GB oil in the primary, works for me.
After 48+ years I have learned a lot about my Norton and keeping up the maintenance when needed is very important to long life with very little breakages/wear, it's all about looking after your old bike and having fun doing it and getting to know your Norton.
Ashley
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ATF is designed for use in automotive gearboxes with multiple internal clutches, the one to go for is the GM version but the Ford will also work well.
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ashley
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge from your long experience with a beginner like me.
I also learned that even if you use ATF, proper maintenance is necessary in the long term. I'm going to ask a professional to check the clutch and get a good understanding of the current state of my bike. I'm also going to look into the problem of the gearbox oil leaking out.
Thank you so much for letting me know.
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Thank you. I'll try to find it so I can get it.
But I'll have to look to see if the GM and Ford versions are available in Japan!
Shelby-Right
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Google 翻訳を使用してみて、コピーしてフォーラムに貼り付けて、ノートンをお楽しみください。乾杯。
Gūguru hon'yaku o shiyō shite mite, kopī shite fōramu ni hari tsukete, nōton o o tanoshimi kudasai. Kanpai
Shelby-Right
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I've heard it just get too hot .
marshg246
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Sure, you could oil it often, but certainly not use cable lube. IMHO, WAY more trouble than it's worth. To actually do what you say correctly, you would have to disassemble the primary and soak the chain in oil. The lub INSIDE the rollers is what matters, not what's on the surface! Primary chains last a long time because they are well lubed inside the rollers.
concours
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I fill my primary with ATF (Dexron, only because it's most prolific) up above the entire bottom run of the chain.
Works great.
Akira san, any JASO automatic transmission fluid will work well. Available at any auto parts supply in Japan.
The specifications are interchangible.
Example: https://petroleumservicecompany.com...x8zl_Rk3zfq4POGd8XFHEsMAtwQnI82Q0rluzPcc91VT4
If changing to ATF doesn't cure the problems, you need to set the stack height properly.
We have a great resource that produces consistent good results.
Dynodave procedure is the way to get good clutch operation on the first try.
Works great.
Akira san, any JASO automatic transmission fluid will work well. Available at any auto parts supply in Japan.
The specifications are interchangible.
Example: https://petroleumservicecompany.com...x8zl_Rk3zfq4POGd8XFHEsMAtwQnI82Q0rluzPcc91VT4
If changing to ATF doesn't cure the problems, you need to set the stack height properly.
We have a great resource that produces consistent good results.
Dynodave procedure is the way to get good clutch operation on the first try.
Last edited:
ashman
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For 48+ years with my Norton and putting in only between 5 to 7 floz of oil I am only on my second triplex chain with over 160k miles, still running the original front sprocket and clutch outer so using the standard level does keep the chain lubed, the chain don't need to run through the oil but its splashes on the chain, but I did run a belt drive for 3 years before going back to the chain, my next new chain will be a double row chain from Jason the chain man, I also replaced the clutch centre with a sealed bearing back in the 80s, so over filling the primary is not needed for chain lube.
I have never in the 48+ years have I done or changed the clutch height using the stock bronze and steel plates and using the ATF my clutch plates haven't stuck or needed freeing up before starting, had too when using motor oil back in the early years.
As I always say, do I own a freak Norton or it has just looked after me or I been lucky with all my bikes, but I did learn at an early time with my Norton that motor oil in the primary is not good for the clutch, by the way my clutch is very light and have no troubles pulling it with one finger if I wanted too.
Ashley
I have never in the 48+ years have I done or changed the clutch height using the stock bronze and steel plates and using the ATF my clutch plates haven't stuck or needed freeing up before starting, had too when using motor oil back in the early years.
As I always say, do I own a freak Norton or it has just looked after me or I been lucky with all my bikes, but I did learn at an early time with my Norton that motor oil in the primary is not good for the clutch, by the way my clutch is very light and have no troubles pulling it with one finger if I wanted too.
Ashley
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Short version - I used oil and it slipped, ATF type F and it doesn't slip. Long version - my plates were many years old and cleaned with a degreaser. I initially used ATF because it's what I had on hand, and all was good. But after some use, I had to get back into the primary to look at other issues. and when I put it all back together, I read the Clymer manual and it said 30W oil. I had that on hand (and was out of ATF) so I used it. That was a big mistake. Now with new plates and ATF it is all good. You just want the chain to be picking up some ATF, not overrun with it. Again, not a lot of Norton experience but I saw a definite difference using oil vs ATF and I will stick with ATF.
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Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it very much.
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Thank you, concours.
I saw this type of ATF at a nearby store.
It seems easy to get.
However, these are not mineral oils. Will that be a problem?
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Thank you Ashley.
I will drain the 10w30 engine oil in my Commando primary as soon as possible and change it to ATF as soon as possible. I will do it this weekend.
