A really big motor

I dont put those shrieking 600/4s in the same category, they are all well within their design parameters, rev-limiters, T.B.O. scheduled...bit same same boring... not a tremendous achievement as in making the Norton twin live while working real hard...

Hi Dave

I have the Maney outrigger but the back gets scored with the twisting. When we discussed this before there was an Aussie fella made them with a 3rd mount in between the clutch & the front pulley.
The sidecar guys practically made a solid cage.

Chris

The subject 1,007cc Norton Seeley uses a TTIndustries EXTRA HD five speed gear box; this obviates the need for an outrigger. Bruce Verdon of TTIndustries provided the gear box with a kick start mechanism. That's how we start it.

The engine started life at around 12.6:1 compression ratio. For several reasons, we now have it at around 10.5:1 compression ratio.

@acotrel - at 0:47 in the video you can see the anti squat phenomena when Kenny opens the throttle. With 1,007cc and a lower gear there's enough torque to manifest as anti squat given the current centerline relationships of the primary sprocket, swing arm spindle and rear axle and sprocket sizes.

Ant-Squat is desirable to racrs? Missed that effect d/t the noisy foward shift on roller. Hm must be something else wrong with my riding philosophy seeking rear squat when getting down to it.

Chris thanx for the heads up on outrigger twisting bracing, backs up my plan to weld the outrigger to become part of the inner primary case and seal the grit out too and ties it to cradle as well as engine side. Thankgoodness belts once set don't need any adjustment to put on or remove.

What rear tire brand and size does this big block race on? How many heats before its tossed?

hobot said:

Ant-Squat is desirable to racrs? Missed that effect d/t the noisy foward shift on roller. Hm must be something else wrong with my riding philosophy seeking rear squat when getting down to it.

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To the casual observer, yes. As I mentioned to acotrel, what do you want your bike to do when driving out of a corner? Raising the rear (anti squat) steepens the effective steering angle (less rake and trail) so the bike wants to turn in rather than drift out. I recall acotrel mentioning this several times. Listen to him - he knows about this.

hobot said:

What rear tire brand and size does this big block race on?

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It's an AVON Super Venom that has seen to many heat cycles on the race track - basically a dyno tire.

hobot said:

How many heats before its tossed?

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I don't know the exact count, maybe once it seems all settled in based on retorque. Waiting for me to get to NYCNorton at the end of the month to help with the fine tuning.

We have two bikes to finesse, this 1,007cc and a Seeley Mk2 with a Nourish Racing Engine (NRE) eight valve for AHRMA F750 racing. The NRE should be pretty close if not spot on with everything but the 1,007 probably has some room for improvement between jetting, ignition advance and intake stack length. The goal for the 1,007cc is to get it streetable with no fouling, no washing the cylinders and no toasting due to being too lean.

As I said, we are at the finessing stage as it starts and sounds pretty healthy.

Thanks for more juicy details of your power lust tire torture. Your stance geometry lesion confrims me fears I can't ride like racers d/t both front tire terror and sharpness boredom. I get some really decent to me used race 17" race only tires so maybe 1007" may be a bit more expensive than planned to keep it in grip enough to stay ahead of the pack. Of course I'd love 18" 19" used tires, not to race on but use up on/off street. As deep as your are already in, why not go for Jim's EFI? I want power enough to be able to just forget about the front like them parking lot stunt guys and gals with no forks on at all. Dyno figures out yet?

Any B.M.E.P. & T.B.O. figures also pending - post, on that street-going big-bad-boy?

What about a ball-park figure price-wise for that big-boy roadburner, as a D.I.Y. package & as a plug & play?

Ballparks with shipping and what ever for each feature, $2000 cases/bearings, $2000 crank, $1000 rods/jugs, $2500 valve/head work, $400 cam, $600 for carbs, $500 headers, $1000 primary drive. $500+ for other do dads like pump and cogs and chain and tensioner and breather but not counting machining fine tuning adapting fitting work. Easy $12000 for naked engine to put into something if ya DIY, rather more if ordered up.

Frank & fearless, that what I wanted to know, thanks hobot. Now, what about that TT gearbox?

From Steve Maney:

http://stevemaney.com/1007.html

$5,445 for above kit. If you push this motor towards 100hp then you need steel rods. I went the way of JSMotorsports rods and pistons for strength and reduced weight.

$1,868 for Maney valve springs and stage three head.
Donor head - allow $400
Custom pushrods - allow $160
Assume new rockers, rocker spindles and ancillaries - swag $350

Carbs - swag $400
Inlet manifolds - allow $130
timing chest innards allow $400
Megacycle cam $400
Main bearings - $200
Misc seals and gaskets - allow $40
Billet oil junction - $67
Boyer Ign - swag $150
Exhaust - +$1,000

So you are at around $11,010 plus allow maybe $400 for shipping.

Then you have to assemble it and break it in and tune it. Do it yourself or have someone do it.

We were fortunate to literally trip over one of these 1,007cc engines already built and literally laying around. The motor belonged to a fellow in Ontario, Canada who had it built for dirt track racing but tragically passed on. The engine in the video was built by Herb Becker with cylinder head work by Steve Spiegelberger. Jim Comstock replaced the alloy rods and pistons with the JSMotorsport package. It sounds perky!

J.A.W. said:

Frank & fearless, that what I wanted to know, thanks hobot. Now, what about that TT gearbox?

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Quotes can be had by contacting Bruce Verdon of TTIndustries but the EXTRA HD five speed with a kick start was beyond $3,000; I just do not have the numbers handy.

J.A.W. said:

What about a ball-park figure price-wise for that big-boy roadburner, as a D.I.Y. package & as a plug & play?

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If you really want to know, contact Kenny Cummings at NYCNorton http://www.nycnorton.com. I hear they are cheaper, that is less expensive if you purchase by the dozen.

Egg analogy? hard boiled I trust, [ now you are... scaring me]... but thanks I wanted a rational sum to compare with other options, it still seems a better deal than risking blowing an old `un up, waiting for a new S.G. Commando[L.O.L.] or ugh, going for an H.D. analogue..

Peel's 920 costs about same as all the others in this league if going with new or remade parts, ~12 grand. Rev limiters are wise insurance to add.

Here's Maney's site on it
http://www.stevemaney.com/1007.html


Here's Norvil new bike range up to 1000 cc, 15,000 UK lbs for the big one.
http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/

hobot, you gave $600- as a figure for carbs, - I`ve always got good deals from these blokes for both VM & TM Mikunis inc jets & advice.
http://www.hvccycle.com/carburetor-parts.html

I paid $160 for a pair of new Amals for past Ms Peel now hand me downs on Trixie. I've not priced hi end big bore flat slide pumpers lately so maybe you can find a good bargain but Peel gets simple gravity fed fuel injection that might cost $100 but its housing cost 1400 more. At this level only reason to ask how much is so fill in the check correctly.

Ok, so, hobot are you gonna run the H202 through the engine inlet via a power-jet/auxillary remote float bowl juice-set? Or only as an discrete reaction-jet burst via nozzles?

I think Peel will need like 1500 cc's worth of power to do what she's intended to, proving the worth of isolastic genius and Norton torque over current crop of elites on balloon tires - beside just survive Ozarks on 87 octane, so water is sprayed by air pressure @ ~40 PSI into the mixture for at least 115 octane when the boost switch trips at 6-7 PSI to stifle detonation as CR approaches 17 diesel range. I want power enough so dry pavement feels as loose as THE Graveling. This is why I'm interested in this 1007's tire traction concerns and conservation, which gets down to pilot skill as much as innate load handling of the cycle itself. A floppy eared Cdo ain't limited by tire traction as mush as its isolastics going nutzo while the really rigid cycles get real touchy on tire traction as the vibes of engine and tire harmonics on surface texture splash into the patches. I don't hardly ever ride an isolastic into tire noise range but for just instants but on past Peel and on my SV and on Ninja they'd sing various tunes to me howling chirping to squealing. Observing my tires and racers up close reveal 3 levels of tire traction loss, one is abraided away like Kieth Code does, [looks like wire brushed] another is gobs liquified tire melt like Codes chief instructor did and the used race tires I run on SuVee and then theres the inbetwen of smeared out rubber sheets about 1/8-3/16" long tags i end up with after thrills on edge as Peel did on harder non race dual purpose sstreet tires. Guess which give the most G force sense with least G force hesitations going around hot as I like. In order to work up to that I practice slower parking lot type stunts to get the feel of bike behavior to swing around or flip up or fall down, then able to let hair out at ballistic speeds loose as a goose. Without the Drouin and air station water tank, just race gas Peel-me may weigh less than the Seeley's so might be neck and neck with 1007 power so then the handling becomes deciding factor in pecking order.