A newbie looking for input: '72 basket case

Hello,

I'm new to the list, and I've recently purchased a '72 basket-case 750 Interstate model. I bought it from the original owner's brother, who had the bike since it was just shy of a year old. His brother bought the bike in England, and toured around Europe for several months (it still has the agent's plaques on each fender-I don't remember who it is, but I'm sure some of you die-hards would recognize it). He took the bike apart in 1987 for a valve job (already done by a reputable guy) and new wiring harness. He repainted the frame black, and the tank and side covers are painted with a very nicely done "70's Hippie" paint job (unfortunately not to my taste). It is metallic blue with a dark blue painted-on Norton logo (well done) and light and dark blue concentric perimeter stripes. I could probably modify the paint scheme slightly and use the parts, but I'll make that decision after a bit more research. The bike came with full factory workshop and parts manuals, along with a Clymer (or Haynes repair) manual.

The bike is missing its gauges, mufflers (have the pipes). The head is off, but the engine does turn over. It was stored in a shed out of the weather. The seat is intact but brittle. The wheels are in good shape. What I think is the inside half of the primary chain case has been damaged by the drive chain (?), but is functional. Most of the other bits appear to be there, and I think the isolastic mounting parts are new (1987 new, but never run on).

I snatched this up since it was a real deal (cheap), and the guy wanted it to go to someone who would do something with it. I have wanted a Commando since I saw the first one when I was in High School ( when you could actually buy a new one). I never really cared for the Interstate's looks, but I always loved the styling of the roadster.

So here's where I'm seeking input, opinions, flames, etc: Since I know the history of the bike, would I be stupid to modify it (even though the paint is already "wrong", and it is in pieces, not an intact "barn find")? Is the Interstate with the Combat 750 somehow more desirable (can't imagine why, but I've been wrong before...)? Other than the tank, side covers, seat (?) and the pipes and maybe handle bars, are the models similar enough such that I can easily convert it to what I want?

What I want is what I would call a "Modern Classic". I like the bikes that CNW produce. I know that there are all kinds of reliability mods, especially in the areas of electrics and oil seals, and that the Combat engine "has problems". I assume it's the bottom end or piston due to the higher compression, and I imagine that there are mods for that as well. If any one can enlighten me about the Combat troubles, I would appreciate it. My intention is to as much of the work myself as possible, including paint, and I would like to use a Corbin seat, and some of the CNW parts. I will probably keep all of the original parts, only modifying purchased spares.

Sorry for the long post, but I would be interested in what you more experienced folks think. My friends tell me to build what I want, but I am also interested in what some of the 'true believers" think.

BTW, I really liked the "military" Commando down a few threads.

Thanks in advance.

Jim
Sandia Park, NM
'72 Basket case
'47 ES2 "Lots of potential..."

Jim, do what ever you want to the bike. There are enough Nortons that not everyone needs a museum piece. If you don't like it as an Interstate, make it a Roadster. And visa versa.

Most likely any mod you can think of has been done before and if it hasn't, well then bless you and post pics.

IMO do what u want. In the end you're the one riding it, and you're the one that has to be happy with it.


Speaking of the interstate model though, I was wondering earlier today why I never see any for sale? I see probably 19 roadsters for every one interstate for sale. Why?

Yup,

It's fairly east to modify a Combat to be solid, good bearings, (some of these guys will hate me for this) lower compression pistons, and frankly I like the earlier standard cam.
Good electronics, some carbs of your choice and you should be good to go. You may also want to help out the brakes and the wet sumping.
I'd save that tank with the 70s paint job if possible as later that may become a collector's item and you don't want to be the guy who repainted and sold Janis Joplin's Porsche.
This gives you the chance to add a steel roadster tank and Corbin seat. Don't buy a fiberglass one, just trust me on this.
Read this forum and do a few searches and you'll get lots of good ideas.

pelican said:

Speaking of the interstate model though, I was wondering earlier today why I never see any for sale? I see probably 19 roadsters for every one interstate for sale. Why?

Click to expand...

If you think back to when these were new, the Roadster was the hot bike to have. I'm guessing people looking for touring bikes wouldn't think Norton first. And nowadays, I think many of the Interstates have been converted to Roadsters too. It's some simple swaps and there is no real way to tell what the bike was.

The REAL reason you don't see Interstates for sale is because they are so fine exactly the way they are, that the owners have no need to sell them!

Thanks for the replies. Grandpaul's picture says a lot. The upswept pipes make a huge difference, so maybe I should go ahead and get the Corbin seat (which I already know I want) and mock it up with the tank and covers that I have before going much further. The 'Hippie" paint was done in the mid '80's when the bike was torn apart, so I'm reasonably certain it wasn't something specified by Janis or Steve McQueen.

I guess there is no real reason not to personalize the bike, since, as I said before, it isn't an intact, unbastardized specimen. I welcome further opinions, suggestions and any advice on weak areas that need to be addressed. I'm not quite ready to start hemorrhaging money, but I hope to have a plan and get serious this fall.

Jim

As Dave said the roadster was the one to have back then. I think a lot of us thought it was a prettier tank. When I bought mine BMW was where you went for a touring bike, a bit later Goldwings, but they had not really made their rep yet.
There were many times I wished I had the extra fuel and had to carry a can with me, usually only a quart.

I would for sure do the main bearings, electronic ignition, and carbs. I went with the single Mikuni as mine is not going to be ridden hard and once set up right are very good carbs. I am still working on mine by the way, You can see my post on tuning. I will post a story on what happened with the Combat and although it does not use the name Combat it is what the story is about. I have gone off the deep end on mine but this is what I wanted and if someone wants to put it back some day I think it will be fairly easy. Some want their bikes original some want to customize, I am lucky enough to a two bikes and one is fairly stock with the bean can exhaust and one is custom. I think you should do what you want and don't worry what others may say, When I was at the Utah rally a couple of years ago I saw two totally raked out choppers that were over the top cool. I hope to see these guys this year too at the Colorado rally, They really put some time into their bikes. Have fun with it and remember you can always change it someday if you like, Take care, Chuck.

That magazine article was good reading.

Quote:
So here's where I'm seeking input, opinions, flames, etc: Since I know the history of the bike, would I be stupid to modify it (even though the paint is already "wrong", and it is in pieces, not an intact "barn find")? Is the Interstate with the Combat 750 somehow more desirable (can't imagine why, but I've been wrong before...)? Other than the tank, side covers, seat (?) and the pipes and maybe handle bars, are the models similar enough such that I can easily convert it to what I want?

Jim,

Everybody has different tastes. On top of that, peoples tastes change over time. Unless you're building the bike to sell it who cares what's considered "desirable" Jay Leno once said, "Restore it to 100 points, ride it to sixty, repeat." Lately my tastes have done a one-eighty. I like the looks of a 'rustoration'. Go thru everything however you want but leave the rusty scabs and nasty bits alone. And never wash it. Compulsive restorers can't take their eyes off'em. They will offer outrageous sums for it.

It took me a couple years way back when to come to much of the same conclusions. This was why I dumped my hot cam, lowered the compression, modified the advance unit, installed the new mains we all knew about, and added a lot of oil capacity. BSAs were rumored to really have trouble with that advance, and one of things I was told was that the point cam profile was not changed when moving from six to twelve volts. This caused an occasional bounced spark and when the engine was high compression could be fatal. Rumor was that Spitfires were most vulnerable. I'm not sure now how much of this was bike shop rumor or truth.The other rumor of the time was that Norton identified the advance problems but did not inform the competition. It was many years back but it seems like I redid the weld on the advance and reformed the cam shapes on it. It seems like you could also fit a screw for a positive stop but it was so many years ago I can't recall exactly.

I appreciate all of your replies.

Chuck, thanks for posting the article. I've been messing with Triumph cars for the last 35 years (yikes!), and the British motorcycle industry appears to have undergone its own version of British Leyland - maybe even worse if that's possible.

The fellow that I bought the bike from told me that he had done about 35k miles, mostly on Long Island and in and around NYC before moving to NM in 1977. He said that this was the first time that he had torn it down, so now I'm wondering if this might have been a later version with the factory modifications mentioned in the article. Regardless, I need to tear it down completely, and do a lot more research.

Bob, I also enjoyed the "rustoration" and Jay Leno comments. In the car world, "survivors" are now the rage. Most of the restorations of British cars and American muscle cars that I've seen over the last few years look better than they did when the cars were new. I'm not after that, I just want a nice looking bike that won't break very often.

I'm about 3 hrs south of Mancos, CO, and I hope to get up to the rally for at least a day. It's a small world, for two summers when I was 14-15, I worked on the ranch adjacent to where the rally is being held. The Mancos / Eco Basin area is absolutely beautiful.

Jim

I do most of my bikes with original finish as much as possible. Sometimes you just can't though.
This is my everyday rider 75 Goldwing in the original factory finish. Most bits came with it but a few like the seatrrail were hard to find.

This Norton has almost nothing original. It's a 64 featherbed with Commando bits to make it an old hot rod like we rode in the 70s. I'm leaving it mostly in the hot rod condition and adding only stuff myself or my friends would have used back then. To me either approach is valid, but if I can save something original I do.

Cookie,

Those are both very nice bikes. I also have an '83 BMW R65 that's in nice shape, and runs well. I bought it last year just before gas went nuts. I've had 3 other BMW's: '73 R75/5, '74 R90/6 and a '84 R100 CS that I bought new. The R65 is a bit slower than I like, mainly because I am not a small person. I'll probably sell it and eventually find another R90, which was the best of the lot.

As far as the Norton is concerned, I've taken your previous comments about "detuning" to heart. The reason that I've always had the BMW's is that they're built like tanks, and last forever because they loaf along. Nothing is pushed to the limit. I want the Commando to get up and go, but if sheer adrenalin rushes are what I want (or need), I would probably buy some kind of soul less crotch-rocket.

BTW, I lived in San Mateo from 1977-1983. We were up near the top of hwy 92 just before it went under Ralston ave. Just west of College of San Mateo.

Jim

Quote Cookie:
This Norton has almost nothing original. It's a 64 featherbed with Commando bits to make it an old hot rod like we rode in the 70s. I'm leaving it mostly in the hot rod condition and adding only stuff myself or my friends would have used back then. To me either approach is valid, but if I can save something original I do.
Cookie,
You nailed it. A bike build can be a coherent snapshot in time. They're like a time capsule. Zeitgeist.

No kidding Jim, you didn't know Paul Lee did you?
I've also got a long running affair with BMWs, I had an R 60 a buddy left me in college for a while. I've got a couple of Changs now for sidecar use. Seems to me an R 90 is an excellent all around bike, I've worked on a couple and been occasionally tempted to get my own.
I could afford Nortons back in college and frankly for bang for the buck they were great. I detuned mine because it was my only bike and had to do everything. When I came here it was the only transport I had year round.

Cookie,

No, I don't know Paul Lee. Most of my friends out there were either in the Triumph (auto), Austin-Healey, Fiat or Alfa communities, and we spent our time keeping them on the road. It was alleged that in the wee hours of the morning, certain people would use the flat, straight section of the San Mateo Bridge (5miles?) to check out the latest engine mod or tune-up. I've heard that there was little or no traffic, and John Law was elsewhere. I wonder if motorcyclists did the same thing?

I guess I'm a bit of a wannabe in terms of the British bikes since I was riding something else back then. I will say that I always loved the looks of the Commando, and certain Triumphs (bikes, I mean), and I appreciate the heritage. I hope that now that I have the means (or at least more means than I had as a kid), and have acquired many of the necessary skills, I can build something nice.

Jim

I had three TR 3s and they were a lot of fun. I have a BMW M Roadster now for my sports car, looks kind of like my XK Jags did but actually runs.
Nortons are fairly simple compared to a lot of modern bikes, no reason you can't do a nice one up. For me there is no rush to it as I work on bikes a bit to relax after work.
We used to test on Route 37, it's about like Bonneville.
I've never actually owned a Triumph bike, in college we had a couple 250s and a 750 around and although I rode them they didn't make me switch from a Norton. A pal had a very quick 650 Bonnie. I find myself occasionally tempted by the new Triumphs, but they seem a bit large to me and not quite as pretty as a 650 Bonnie.