I'm assuming the 961 has an agm or lead acid battery. Being as the battery is so awkward to gain access to, can I ask is it possible to fit a lithium one? It would mean the battery would last for much longer and be more ready to start. In fact I think a lithium battery doesn't need to be on a trickle charge.
961 Battery
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Fast Eddie
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I fitted Lithium to my last one, saved a chunk of (very high up) weight.
Also increased cranking speed due to increased cranking amps.
However, it does NOT address your concern about holding charge for longer as loss of charge is seldom due to the battery, it is due to parasitic losses on the bike.
Some Donnington ones lost a lot through parasitic drain, mine was actually ok.
I don’t think we know yet if Birmingham bikes suffer the same parasitic issues, one would certainly hope not.
Also increased cranking speed due to increased cranking amps.
However, it does NOT address your concern about holding charge for longer as loss of charge is seldom due to the battery, it is due to parasitic losses on the bike.
Some Donnington ones lost a lot through parasitic drain, mine was actually ok.
I don’t think we know yet if Birmingham bikes suffer the same parasitic issues, one would certainly hope not.
cliffa
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Have a look at this thread….
I moved my battery which you can see from post 66 onwards.
I moved my battery which you can see from post 66 onwards.
I take it then that the source of the drain was never discovered, or made known?
Many thanks for that. Such a lot of info. there to get my head around!Have a look at this thread….
I moved my battery which you can see from post 66 onwards.
Stu Bodycote
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The drain is from the clocks. Euro 4 bikes and the Solihull re-release have the rev counter permanent live re-routed through the ecu shut down relay....so they only the speedo left to drain the battery, essentially halving the drain when compared to a euro 3 bike. You could make the speedo's permanent live to a switched live, but your clock won't keep the correct time.
I dont like lithium batteries on the standard reg/rec, as I don't see them as being stable enough....and neither does the manufacturer, as stated on large, bold red text on their website.
Regards removing the tank, takes less than five minutes. Just practice at it.
Battery weight is equal to a gallon of fuel (a manly gallon of manly petrol....not a US gallon of the stuff they sell)
I dont like lithium batteries on the standard reg/rec, as I don't see them as being stable enough....and neither does the manufacturer, as stated on large, bold red text on their website.
Regards removing the tank, takes less than five minutes. Just practice at it.
Battery weight is equal to a gallon of fuel (a manly gallon of manly petrol....not a US gallon of the stuff they sell)
What a brilliant solution and such an excellent job done. Did you replace the reg/rec?Have a look at this thread….
I moved my battery which you can see from post 66 onwards.
cliffa
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Thank you. I have to say, I'm pretty pleased with the way it turned out, and is hardly noticeable. It can be reverted very easily should the need arise (which I doubt).
No I didn't replace the reg/rec.. NOCO, the battery providers website and documentation do not mention the need to change, so I didn't.
When you say manufacturer do you mean Norton? There seems to be varying points of view regarding lithium. I'm not too bothered about removing the tank at home, it's the thought of a flat battery miles from home and needing to jump start. Some good ideas on the forum though. What may help is to replace the battery every two years regardless!
Stu Bodycote
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No, the manufacturer of the regulator rectifier.
Stephen_Spencer
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Notwithstanding Stu’s post above (which is no doubt accurate) - more than a few of us had battery/starting problems until we switched to lithium. Those extra CCA seem to work really well with the 961. Personally I’ve had no such difficulties since.
Seemed to me that with a ‘good quality’ lithium battery, the best option is the makers own Battery Management System (if available) or a premium quality lithium charger/maintainer. Whether this completely bypasses the problems listed above I’m not certain - hard to prove a negative.
Seemed to me that with a ‘good quality’ lithium battery, the best option is the makers own Battery Management System (if available) or a premium quality lithium charger/maintainer. Whether this completely bypasses the problems listed above I’m not certain - hard to prove a negative.
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FWIW - My bike was about 10yrs old when I got it and had battery "issues". I looked at Lion replacement but thought if the old one lasted that long, they must be ok so replaced like for like and had no issues since.....touch wood.
The main reasons (other than the above) for sticking with OEM was the space under the tank and the fact that (at the time) I didn't have an appropriate optimate for it. My other bikes have all got Lion so I'm good for an optimate now but I'm very much of the thinking that if the lead battery lasted a decade why try to improve it.
Just my 2c's obviously
The main reasons (other than the above) for sticking with OEM was the space under the tank and the fact that (at the time) I didn't have an appropriate optimate for it. My other bikes have all got Lion so I'm good for an optimate now but I'm very much of the thinking that if the lead battery lasted a decade why try to improve it.
Just my 2c's obviously
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Hello , This all makes sense when viewed form the liability standpoint. No manufacturer wants to be liable for anything bad. This kind of reminds me of when synthetic oils first hit the market and all the fear associated with using them. Time will tell I suppose but until then I can vouch for my LiFePO4 battery from Shorai and relate some facts . Lithium batteries are not ideal for high parasitic draws , this is clearly stated . But when used within their performance envelope they are wonderful. I am using a standard rec/reg on my Norton 961 , not the Electrerex ( looks the same and mounts the same as Electrex but from EBAYand low cost !) and have been working well together for at least 6 years and many many fast starts. Now if someone would like to post the Shorai Battery FAQ stating all of this please do it.
City Garage
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Shorai just states to have a modern charging system. and I've lost count of the lithium we have installed, but it's in the hundreds, and there's not one issue with the batteries. Now, there have been wiring issues and, yes, the occasional bad regulator/rectifier, but the new lithium has its own BMS, which helps regulate any problems.
This issue has been covered repeatedly here and in the commando forum.
I will leave it at this. Look at all the manufacturers that now spec a lithium battery along with the numbers sold aftermarket. If someone is so concerned with their current charging system, there are plenty of aftermarkets that have adjustable voltage points so you do not exceed the recommended voltage.
Shorai specs
- Recommended voltage range: 13.6 - 14.4 volts
- Maximum allowed voltage: 15.2 volts
City Garage
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This^^^^^^^^ right here . You get 100 or more cranking amps with the same draw. Also various batteries have sleep modes that save the battery from draw issues
Stu Bodycote
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The standard reg/rec isn't considered stable enough, with spikes. Modern bikes with lithium batteries run mosfet reg/recs. I fitted a shindengen mosfet fh020aa to my 1098, which was plug and play with a Triumph patch harness. There's lots of fakes of those out there though, even the V4ss ran with a fake shindengen. I bought mine from a one year old written off Triumph.
Regards cranking amps, the yuasa ytz14s regularly shows actual cca of 250+, rather than the stated 230. Dynavolt equivalents, I've yet to have one pass, with them usually recording around 150cca. At the very early days, I'd recommend the Motobatt agm, but then there was reports of the markets being flooded with fakes, of which I was sceptical....but then I had a couple fail on me, so I switched back to the factory original Yuasa. Nearly four years of selling those now, so well into the hundreds....not one failure or issue. If your bike is struggling on a good condition, good quality agm then your bike has a problem. Check the main earth lead, especially under the heat shrink on the engine side terminal, and check out the starter motor.
Regards cranking amps, the yuasa ytz14s regularly shows actual cca of 250+, rather than the stated 230. Dynavolt equivalents, I've yet to have one pass, with them usually recording around 150cca. At the very early days, I'd recommend the Motobatt agm, but then there was reports of the markets being flooded with fakes, of which I was sceptical....but then I had a couple fail on me, so I switched back to the factory original Yuasa. Nearly four years of selling those now, so well into the hundreds....not one failure or issue. If your bike is struggling on a good condition, good quality agm then your bike has a problem. Check the main earth lead, especially under the heat shrink on the engine side terminal, and check out the starter motor.
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Ultimately, yes...but the battery wasn't going longer than a day or two after >10yrs of use. The new one is way better and whilst parasitc drain will still be an issue I've got a lot more time between "issues" now which was important as I was doing a long trip and didn't fancy taking chargers, etc with me
