850 Mk3 exhaust questions (2014)

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Hello, my name is Tom and I am new here.

I have a 1975 850 Commando "Electric Start" that I acquired from a buddy in 2006. It runs well, but the exhaust pipes / "headers" are pretty rusted. I found some Interstate pipes some years ago but put them on the shelf when I realized they were not compatible with the Roadster style exhaust system. The bike has the Bean Can mufflers / silencers, owing to my desire to keep it as original and new as it (and I) was in 1975.

On the bike now is a set of "balances" headers / exhaust pipes. The fin nuts are literally locked onto the pipes, as if someone had taken a plumber's "flange" tool and widened the pipes after inserting the fin nuts onto the pipe.

Three questions:. (Best anwer gets you a beer if you live in the Baltimore/D.C area,)

1. Can I cut the extra "bend" off the Interstate pipes and use them for the Roadster mufflers/set up, or should I just sell them and start over? When I hold them up to the existing system, they seem to match up pretty well. (I have heard the 75 pipes have an extra bend to accommodate the "fung shway"/brake/shifter transition)

2. It appears that the OEM balanced pipes used "split collets" rather than the crude set up I have now. Does the split collet set up require the use of a shorter finned nut, or can I use the existing nuts, which appear to be taken from an "unbalanced" system? In this regard, I noticed the following post by RVICH a year or two ago:

"Just to clarify, the unbalanced pipes (750 pipes) have a flange that fits the exhaust port and you slide the nuts on from the muffler end. Because you can't slide a nut on from that end on a balanced pipe it has to have a different arrangement, thus the split collet and the shorter finned nut."

3. I have an extra Bean can/mkuffler/silencer with the what appears to be the original "Norton" Insignia on it and the painted black end. Th PO, my buddy "Crash", wrecked the bike and dented the left side can, so I bought a left side muffler. When I go into it, I realized the other can was all rotted out (brake fluid?). So I bought a pair of aftermarket bean cans. Does anybody want to buy the orginal one from me? You can have it for what I paid ($75 bucks on E-bay) plus shipping. Free delivery on the DC to NY corrider as I am a transplanted New Yorker and get back to the Big Apple as often as I can).

My Younger daughter is goin to law school next fall and I really need to raise all the extra cash I possibly can. Tuition today (compared with mine in 1981) is absolutely criminal. I should ride the motocycle into the Dean's office in protest.

4. Reliability and retention of original equipment are much more important to me at this stage of life than "performance." (Whcih is exactly what I tell my doctors. btw). I realize that the balanced pipes and the bean can set up are viewed as "slower" than straight pea shooters, but I am in no hurry to get anywhere at this stage of my life.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you may be able to render.
 
Welcome, Tom.

MarkIIITom said:
The fin nuts are literally locked onto the pipes, as if someone had taken a plumber's "flange" tool and widened the pipes after inserting the fin nuts onto the pipe.

Firstly, have you removed the MkIII type split collets from the nuts? Original MkIII exhaust pipes would normally have "flared" ends, unlike the earlier "flanged" pipes, if the MkIII collets have rusted to the exhaust nuts then that could possibly be why you can't remove the nuts?


MarkIIITom said:
1. Can I cut the extra "bend" off the Interstate pipes and use them for the Roadster mufflers/set up, or should I just sell them and start over? When I hold them up to the existing system, they seem to match up pretty well. (I have heard the 75 pipes have an extra bend to accommodate the "fung shway"/brake/shifter transition)

The MkIII drive-side pipe is usually bent differently to clear the MkIII primary drive, an earlier model pipe may not clear it?



MarkIIITom said:
2. It appears that the OEM balanced pipes used "split collets" rather than the crude set up I have now. Does the split collet set up require the use of a shorter finned nut, or can I use the existing nuts, which appear to be taken from an "unbalanced" system? In this regard, I noticed the following post by RVICH a year or two ago:

All the balanced (850) systems use split collets, however as mentioned above, the MkIII collet assembly differs somwhat to the previous ('73-'74) type, the MkIII should also have a spherical seating 065259 (one in each ex. port) between the pipe and head, do you have those?

MkIII Collets: 065260
http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/belled-e ... t_1338.htm

Spherical seating: 065259
http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/belled-e ... t_1339.htm

(Note Re. MkIII parts book, Group 26: The item numbered "31" on the drawing is the "Collet" and "32", is the "Seating")

http://www.bigdcycle.com/book%20project ... index.html
 
How interesting, I thought it was only me that non removal exhaust nuts on my MK3 balanced pipes. Where the hell they came from I don't know as they are Phosy Bronze and been on there since 1995!
 
L.A.B.

Thanks for the tips. The 75 does indeed use a different system, per Roy Bacon's book on restoring Norton Twins. It appears they may have used a one piece split collete rather than the two piece system from prior years?

I will pull the system off and see if the collets look like they are rusted into the exhaust nuts. At that time, I can fit the Interstate pipe on the primary side and check to see if it clears the cases. and lines up with the muffler.

I appreciate the help.
 
ONE PIECE STUCK :

Not being German , and contrary to rumours of oil impregnation , and particularly as the Exhaust Threads in the Cylinder Head can be a sore point ' WE ' generally spray CRC / WD40 ? penetrateing oil .
Even being carefull :shock: a rag under whilst doing so , stops it staining beyond .give it a few aeons to penetrate .

Also perhaps a spot of heat , sitting quietly for a half hour - then having a chat to it so as to come to a understanding .
Often if it shifts ( rotates ) a quick turn back a notch helps the threads be lubricated .

Whatever ; you dont want to tear them out . A positive disposition combined with a firm hand & caution :? , and make sure the spanner fits & dosnt slip . A spare hand to locate the wrench firmly perhaps .

ANYWAY , its one thing you dont want to stuff up . Or Its OFF WITH THE HEAD . :shock: :( :wink: so you must be on good terms with the universe whilst undertakeing the endevour .
 
MarkIIITom said:
It appears they may have used a one piece split collete rather than the two piece system from prior years?

Well, due to the design, the "one piece" Mk.3 collets soon become two piece collets!

850 Mk3 exhaust questions (2014)


Previous discussion (link updated):
 
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L.A.B. said:
MarkIIITom said:
It appears they may have used a one piece split collete rather than the two piece system from prior years?

Well, due to the design, the "one piece" Mk.3 collets soon become two piece collets!

850 Mk3 exhaust questions (2014)


Previous discussion:
assembly-order-verification-please-t17263.html?hilit=collets#p214339
Ain't that the truth. I remember way back when, re-installing my exhaust system and "DAMN! I broke that thing in half, now what", realized it made no difference at all.
 
Well, due to the design, the "one piece" Mk.3 collets soon become two piece collets!

850 Mk3 exhaust questions (2014)


Previous discussion:
assembly-order-verification-please-t17263.html?hilit=collets#p214339

Resurrecting this thread since the previous discussion link doesn't work. I have a MK3 that I'm fitting a new exhaust system this weekend. I removed the original and the original one piece collets split into a 2 piece. Mark from British Cycle Supply said I could still use them since 74 and later all had 2 piece collets. Can somone confirm this? If this is the case, does anyone have any tricks on how to keep the 2 piece collets to stay in place while installing the exhaust pipes?
 
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Resurrecting this thread since the previous discussion link doesn't work. I have a MK3 that I'm fitting a new exhaust system this weekend. I removed the original and the original one piece collets split into a 2 piece. Mark from British Cycle Supply said I could still use them since 74 and later all had 2 piece collets. Can somone confirm this? If this is the case, does anyone have any tricks on how to keep the 2 piece collets to stay in place while installing the exhaust pipes?
Copper grease.......
 
I removed the original and the original one piece collets split into a 2 piece. Mark from British Cycle Supply said I could still use them since 74 and later all had 2 piece collets. Can somone confirm this?

Yes, it really makes no difference. (Actually '73 and later so all 850).

If this is the case, does anyone have any tricks on how to keep the 2 piece collets to stay in place while installing the exhaust pipes?

With the lockring on the pipe, fit the collets into the lockring. Use a little grease (or Copper grease as mentioned) to hold them in place as necessary.
 
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The 2 pc. collets are produced as one pc., the "parting operation" is just left slightly incomplete for ease of handling. The connective tit is superfluous to function.
 
just got my exhaust system in and it looks like the headers have a flared end where I won't need these collets. Commando specialties also told me I need new exhaust gaskets but when I removed the original exhaust, I didn't see any gaskets just the spherical seatings. is the collets only there for the original exhaust system to keep the rose nut from moving? If my new headers are flared, do I need to use the old collets? What is the spherical seating for ? do I need to use them if I'm putting in new exhaust gaskets?
 
Collets are there so the rose nuts can be used on a balanced pipe system, pre balanced they are not needed as the rose nuts feed on from the end. If you have the flared and not the flanged ends then you need the spherical seats. With the spherical seats I do not use gaskets, you lose enough thread engagement without reducing it further with gaskets, I get no leaks.
 
Collets are there so the rose nuts can be used on a balanced pipe system, pre balanced they are not needed as the rose nuts feed on from the end. If you have the flared and not the flanged ends then you need the spherical seats. With the spherical seats I do not use gaskets, you lose enough thread engagement without reducing it further with gaskets, I get no leaks.
Sorry for the beginner level question but are these flared or flanged?
850 Mk3 exhaust questions (2014)
 
Sorry for the beginner level question but are these flared or flanged?

That's the 750 unbalanced flanged pipe that uses the crush washer and 'long' 750 lockring.

Mk3 pipes:
 
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That's the 750 unbalanced flanged pipe that uses the crush washer and 'long' 750 lockring.

Mk3 pipes:
Got it so no need for the spherical seat or collets. Just the exhaust gasket and rose nut. This is going on a mk3 btw
 
Got it so no need for the spherical seat or collets. Just the exhaust gasket and rose nut.

You will need to check the fit, as I mentioned, '750' pipes used a slightly longer threaded lockring although you can fit two crush washers or I believe although not standard, you can use the spherical seatings with the flanged pipes. Also, check the LH pipe clears the 850 Mk3 primary chaincase.
 
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