72 commando 750

MexicoMike said:

I'm surprised that AN would provide such a service. Selling the blank plate is one thing. Stamping the numbers with no "official" verification (original title/sales receipt, whatever) could involve them in any complaint re subsequent purchase/representation of the motorcycle. Since "matching numbers" can make a major difference in the the selling price of 'vintage' vehicle, if a question of fraud arose, wouldn't they automatically be a party to it if there was a complaint?

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I don't know about that but I do replace them on most bikes I build because they are generally almost unreadable. Of course, the old one stays with the bike.

I only work with matching numbers bikes and I buy whatever factory record is available for the bike. In the US, having a title that matches the visible numbers is important and if it matches the engine, gearbox and Certification Label you are good and if someone were to contest it, showing the original label should stop any problem. I believe I could defend that in any court.

Where is get a little more dicey is the 850s with a frame number if you have the factory record that shows it. The 850 I have for sale has one and the factory record shows it. I had another frame that would have been easier to restore, but I used the original so I had even more proof that the Certification Label was accurate.

The Certification Label is nothing like a modern VIN tag - often some of the info in it is not even true. For instance "Date of Manufacture" is not a date, but a Month and Year is often something different than any date on the factory records available today.

Now, the OP said that he didn't have the label. That would be a problem for me. But someone else told him to buy a blank and stamp it - I see that as no different.

"I cannot thank you guys enough for this info and now that I know about the gearbox oil I can drain and clean it and refill it seeing as how it seems to shift and move freely so I really don't want to tear it apart if it is unnecessary."

There is one thing in the gearbox that you might want to change and that is the Layshaft ball bearing if it is the Portuguese special. There is a good bunch of posts of how these bearings have failed and the bearing of choice to rectify that problem. If you know that it was changed out then all is good but if you are guessing then I would dig into the box to sort it out. We can help here if need be. Its a bearing that you don't want to fail while your riding.
Cheers,
Tom

A ‘72 ID plate should be like mine in the picture. There are different labels depending on the year.

illf8ed said:

A ‘72 ID plate should be like mine in the picture. There are different labels depending on the year.

View attachment 18318

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Interesting! I thought that yours was the plate used in 71 and that the correct plate for a 72 was as below.

Mine has this plate and is a 1972, no. 200744.

What do others have around the 71/72 time period?

illf8ed said:

A ‘72 ID plate should be like mine in the picture. There are different labels depending on the year.

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By my research the pix shows vin plate for 71 mfg 20M3S and 71 mfg 200000


Certainly certification/VIN plates reaccomplising is a touchy subject and is frequently incorrect.(as evidenced on this thread) As few know, the 200000 series use the early tag if documented as built in 1971 and Jan 1972 on, use the newer cert tag.

I recently had a phone call from "ST of CALIF CHP" motor vehicle research officer. He had found my web article and we discussed commando vin evolution at length and frame markings and vin tag markings. A commando being sold and the #'s were in question on a commando being transferred for well over $10,000. From the evidence the bike was a retagged BITSA fraud and it's final fate was not declared to me.

My advice is as usual, if the bike is currently worth anything or you will try to eventually sell it, get a title before spending a penny on it. In the usa, in most states, the norton frame vin is the identity. It may not be 100% but they now know and agreed the frame batch # is not the VIN, but the vin tag MUST be on the original frame. Retagged frames will be looked at as potential fraud.

dynodave said:

By my research the pix shows vin plate for 71 mfg 20M3S and 71 mfg 200000


Certainly certification/VIN plates reaccomplising is a touchy subject and is frequently incorrect.(as evidenced on this thread) As few know, the 200000 series use the early tag if documented as built in 1971 and Jan 1972 on, use the newer cert tag.

I recently had a phone call from "ST of CALIF CHP" motor vehicle research officer. He had found my web article and we discussed commando vin evolution at length and frame markings and vin tag markings. A commando being sold and the #'s were in question on a commando being transferred for well over $10,000. From the evidence the bike was a retagged BITSA fraud and it's final fate was not declared to me.

My advice is as usual, if the bike is currently worth anything or you will try to eventually sell it, get a title before spending a penny on it. In the usa, in most states, the norton frame vin is the identity. It may not be 100% but they now know and agreed the frame batch # is not the VIN, but the vin tag MUST be on the original frame. Retagged frames will be looked at as potential fraud.

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Hi Dave,

SteveC In the UK is saying his 200774 has the later label. Kind of shows the convolution of what the factory did. My 201881 with Dec 1971 has the plate I show above. I have seen evidence of UK and Europe bound machines with earlier numbers get shipped after the US bound machines with later numbers. Non Linear.

Steve what is the build date on your plate?

On NOC forum there seems to be a lot of retagging (in England). SO IT IS NOT JUST THE FACTORY. So just because a bike is "currently " with xyz tag I am not usually convinced unless I see it for myself. Nice new shiny red tag ? repainted frame? It may well be folks accepting the parts book as being the bible as to what the factory actually did, rather than a bit of forensic examination.
Your 06-1441 tag seems authentic and is on my frame also, 06-1441 is in the 70 parts and 71 parts book but NOT in the 200000 parts book. Where does that leave us?
The 06.3247 tag on 71 builds is not confidence inspiring. I have seen that 06.3247 tag on virtually all 72 builds I can recall but have not seen one yet on a 71 build.
Not saying it could not happen.
I'll have to ask Frank with 200205* with the combat tune that "doesn't exist" what his tag is...

*Edited by the moderator as dynodave later discovered the number was 202005.

Every time I've replaced one during a restoration, I use the same format tag, and retain the old one as proof.

grandpaul said:

Every time I've replaced one during a restoration, I use the same format tag, and retain the old one as proof.

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+1, very important to me - I have a reputation to maintain.

illf8ed said:

Hi Dave,

SteveC In the UK is saying his 200774 has the later label. Kind of shows the convolution of what the factory did. My 201881 with Dec 1971 has the plate I show above. I have seen evidence of UK and Europe bound machines with earlier numbers get shipped after the US bound machines with later numbers. Non Linear.

Steve what is the build date on your plate?

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This has always worried me. My label has no date stamp?

Originally it was an Interpol model that was supplied to the Jersey Police. (Americans need not get excited this was Jersey Island near France...)
It was first registered by them in July 1972. I have the buff logbook so know this is accurate.
I always imagined that batches of bikes were set aside to be modified for Police use as parts and specialist installers were available......or.... they were sent to third party companies for conversion as specified by individual police forces. This would explain the long delay between build and registration. I would think that if they made around 250 bikes a week then mine would be a Jan 72 or Feb 72 at the latest.
The NOC do not have the record for my bike.
I think I will get an AN record check to see if they record a date.

PS. Has anyone else seen a commando with no date stamp?

SteveC said:

This has always worried me. My label has no date stamp?

Originally it was an Interpol model that was supplied to the Jersey Police. (Americans need not get excited this was Jersey Island near France...)
It was first registered by them in July 1972. I have the buff logbook so know this is accurate.
I always imagined that batches of bikes were set aside to be modified for Police use as parts and specialist installers were available......or.... they were sent to third party companies for conversion as specified by individual police forces. This would explain the long delay between build and registration. I would think that if they made around 250 bikes a week then mine would be a Jan 72 or Feb 72 at the latest.
The NOC do not have the record for my bike.
I think I will get an AN record check to see if they record a date.

PS. Has anyone else seen a commando with no date stamp?

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Hi Steve
Just had the wife check the VIN plate ...like yours mine was originally an Interpol
MY plate is stamped August 72 with a chassis No. 200918
The factory record state 19/8/72

SteveC said:

Has anyone else seen a commando with no date stamp?

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There have been several reports of plates with no date stamp (one only a few days ago) so it's not that unusual and nothing to be concerned about.

olympus said:

Hi Steve
Just had the wife check the VIN plate ...like yours mine was originally an Interpol
MY plate is stamped August 72 with a chassis No. 200918
The factory record state 19/8/72

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If the 72 versions started around Jan 72 (or even before), yours may also have been taken from Jan or Feb production and perhaps date stamped when Interpol conversion was completed. This would suggest that the bike was made with numbers on the stamp and dated later?

Where's Paul he needs help/advice, but things seem to have bogged down with the Vin Plate, have you scared him off already?
Might be better to start another Vin plate post??

Burgs

my vin plate #206xxx has 1972 stamped in one corner no build month

Same here. Mine is in the lower left right hand corner, upside down. Not real evident at first. But it’s there.

mine is in the bottom right corner and upside down from the serial number. also its the 063247 type

CanukNortonNut said:

Paul,
get some pictures out of your Dad's bike for us to see and what's needed to be attended to. If I can't see anything weird, or someone else could pipe in, this will help.
At what stage are you ready to fire the old girl up at?
Keep on Keepin on..
cheers
Tom

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Unfortunately it will be at least a few months before it is running again. It is honestly as disassembled as it virtually could be with the exception of the crankcase and gearbox everything else is apart and being fully cleaned (slowly) back to factory new. And I'm painting everything that needs repainting. But I'll have some pictures up hopefully like next month. I'm hoping in the next few weeks to get the completed engine and trans back on the frame along with the wheels but first I need to order a rebuild kit for the forks. Other than that I need to order a speedo and tach (both got crushed somehow) and I need to rebuild the carbs and all new ignition system because it doesn't look to be in great shape. That's all that it really needs to run again.