650 update ??

BritTwit

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Trouble is, if Bloor inc took Norton over and wanted to do so to utilise their current knowledge, factories, etc... and if they wanted a suitable return on their investment... then they’d have to totally start from scratch and build a modern, reliable, economical to build, high volume machine that exploited economies of scale on their supply chain... which then would be so much like their current classic range that the majority of customers they attract would be those who would have otherwise likely bought a Triumph anyway. Resulting in few net additional sales. This is known as ‘brand cannibalism’ whereby one’s own offerings are competing with each other to a negative extent.

The alternative is that they buy Norton and leave it be as a stand alone ‘niche / boutique’ concern... but I can’t see how they’d benefit from that either.

It would be awesome for Norton owners if they did, imagine having access to the huge Triumph dealership network! But even that raises another negative, they know they’d be buying responsibility for troublesome machines.

Bottom line, IMHO, is I can see little or no benefit to Triumph for buying Norton. Thus I can’t imagine they’re remotely interested.

Just my take.
Doubt it’s Bloor too.
Norton is nothing to worry about for Triumph.
But let’s say it is Bloor, what might he be up to?

1. Buy the Norton brand, peanut/cigarette money to Bloor really. Then bury the brand, take it off market for ever. Now who ya gonna buy a modern classic from.


2. OK, Bloor buys the brand, then tells his product boys to take the Triumph Speed Twin, paint the tank to say Norton, put a big “N” on the timing cover, and paint Commando 1200 on the side covers. Viola - Norton Commando 1200. Now, you want a Norton, buy it from Triumph. Zero development cost to Bloor.
 

auldblue

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EFFEF0E4-9767-4D91-BF04-E37458CE1F19.png
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Doubt it’s Bloor too.
Norton is nothing to worry about for Triumph.
But let’s say it is Bloor, what might he be up to?

1. Buy the Norton brand, peanut/cigarette money to Bloor really. Then bury the brand, take it off market for ever. Now who ya gonna buy a modern classic from.


2. OK, Bloor buys the brand, then tells his product boys to take the Triumph Speed Twin, paint the tank to say Norton, put a big “N” on the timing cover, and paint Commando 1200 on the side covers. Viola - Norton Commando 1200. Now, you want a Norton, buy it from Triumph. Zero development cost to Bloor.

who owns this mob then?
 

Fast Eddie

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Yes indeed... the stand was large, but there was lots of space to walk around...

The 2 Atlas’ looked like the same bikes that were displayed last year. Ditto the SL. There were no production ready 650s. None to sit on or feel etc. The only change appeared to be the luggage bolted to the Ranger.

They could not give me a delivery date for the SL. They couldn’t even tell me when they’re likely to actually start being produced.

The carbon fibre frame looks freakin’ awesome! But is only for the SS, it will NOT be an option for the standard SL.

The SL SS is a huge white elephant IMHO at that price. It’s aimed purely at the living room ornament collectors market.

The standard SL is still the bike out of the line up that floats my boat.

I would have ordered one... if I hadn’t done so already...
 
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Yes I like it too . It may worth it just to have one to look at. Even though I know the riding position will pain me. I hope they get things sorted out soon.
 
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21 Sep 2017 Notification of Bloor Holdings Limited as a person with significant control on 6 April 2016
View PDF Notification of Bloor Holdings Limited as a person with significant control on 6 April 2016 - link opens in a new window - 2 pages(2 pages)

12 Nov 2009 Director's details changed for John Stuart Bloor on 6 November 2009
View PDF Director's details changed for John Stuart Bloor on 6 November 2009 - link opens in a new window - 3 pages


Company names and trademarks are 2 distinct entities, one covered by Companies House and the other by Intellectual property rights, effectively there is no stopping anyone using the words out of a Trademark within a company name with no common ownership at all.

Likely this company was setup as a means to file accounts for expenses related to a potential purchase of Norton around 2009, so maybe SG had a quick exit in mind at the time or Bloor was speaking to Kenny Deer, the limited costs of keeping a company on the register means Bloor could have it ready to go quickly for very little money hence it still exists.
 
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21 Sep 2017 Notification of Bloor Holdings Limited as a person with significant control on 6 April 2016
View PDF Notification of Bloor Holdings Limited as a person with significant control on 6 April 2016 - link opens in a new window - 2 pages(2 pages)

12 Nov 2009 Director's details changed for John Stuart Bloor on 6 November 2009
View PDF Director's details changed for John Stuart Bloor on 6 November 2009 - link opens in a new window - 3 pages


Company names and trademarks are 2 distinct entities, one covered by Companies House and the other by Intellectual property rights, effectively there is no stopping anyone using the words out of a Trademark within a company name with no common ownership at all.

Likely this company was setup as a means to file accounts for expenses related to a potential purchase of Norton around 2009, so maybe SG had a quick exit in mind at the time or Bloor was speaking to Kenny Deer, the limited costs of keeping a company on the register means Bloor could have it ready to go quickly for very little money hence it still exists.
It would work, but for what reason, does not make sense as Triumph could own NMUK as a subsiduary or sister company. If NMUK liquidates or has administrators then Bloor would struggle to buy, yes he is rich, but not that rich compared to the others out there. It would be an open market place.

With a TM, use it or lose it, even if Bloor could buy it he would need to use it or it could be challenged, and most challenges win.

The problem here is that what is held in NMUK (TM and licences) are held as a security for Norton Holdings group. Complicated by the fact a WUP hangs over NMUK. So, first raise the cash to remove the security to gain back the TM and licences, second, if possible ensure the WUP hearing goes in NMUK favour. With a WUP hanging, the TM and licences stay put in NMUK and can not be moved out of NMUk. Some may remember the man Calof, he tried that but the US court soon caught up with him in the end.

Some might now spot the issue, a thorny one at that.

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00001459204

From the above if you search Norton, you will see more info.
 
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John, yes Clem has left Norton.
Ref your JPN, I would highly recommend the cNw electric start. I’ve fitted it to my 11:1cr 920 Commando and it works perfectly.
PM me if you want more details, not sure how far you are from Oxford but you’d be welcome to come and have a up-close look if you wish.
Thanks Eddie much appreciated but going to wait until next year for both bikes. Regarding the future of Norton we have seen it all before mate.
 

Eljahara

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For those desperate to try out the 650 Atlas engines, Zongshen took an adventure bike and a tourer to the EIMCA in Milan - both powered by the Norton Atlas engine. Both are in production from January.
As said in Bike magazine
“Cyclone is Zongshen’s premium brand - think what Lexus is to Toyota - and the adventure bike has features including TFT dash, LED lights, adjustable Kayaba suspension, Nissan radial brakes and Pirelli Angel GT tyres...”
I am not an agent for Zongshen, just saying an Atlas powered bike is available...

 
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Aprilia have a joint venture with Zongshen, the motorcycle industry is becoming as incestuous as the Auto side ;)

https://www.livingwithgravity.com/n...-150-first-with-a-joint-effort-with-zongshen/

Until there was a stunning news that the Aprilia RS150 had really been mass created, however not in India or in Italy, yet in China. Yupz, in China, Aprilia in a joint effort with Zongshen really delivered their 150cc race motorbike with an alternate name whose item was named Aprilia GPR150
 
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Eljahara

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Aprilia have a joint venture with Zongshen, the motorcycle industry is becoming as incestuous as the Auto side ;)

https://www.livingwithgravity.com/n...-150-first-with-a-joint-effort-with-zongshen/

Until there was a stunning news that the Aprilia RS150 had really been mass created, however not in India or in Italy, yet in China. Yupz, in China, Aprilia in a joint effort with Zongshen really delivered their 150cc race motorbike with an alternate name whose item was named Aprilia GPR150
True
They are also releasing Aprilia250GPR - but don’t get excited that the Aprilia 2 stroke RS250 is back...only available in Asia as a 4stroke W/C single.
 
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Looks like they will be all Chinese built after all, interesting to see what the RX6 850 twin that was developed by UK, Italian and Chinese engineers actually is.
 
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Classic Bike guide NEXT month, out in about 4 weeks time, is testing the 650 Nomad and Ranger models.. and pic of them both inside back cover of this month’s issue.
 
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Classic Bike guide NEXT month, out in about 4 weeks time, is testing the 650 Nomad and Ranger models.. and pic of them both inside back cover of this month’s issue.
CBG is what my missus works on, apparently the affairs of Norton is hot gossip in the offices at the moment.
 
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Yes, as it is in all the other mag and motorcycle press HQ's, but they will do as they are told by Norton, just like in the old days. None of them have the minerals to ask the questions needed as they fear losing out in the future. Sadly, their readers come second and always have.

The road-test for CBG will have been completed some months ago, as the tests take a good while to get to press.
 
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Yes, as it is in all the other mag and motorcycle press HQ's, but they will do as they are told by Norton, just like in the old days. None of them have the minerals to ask the questions needed as they fear losing out in the future. Sadly, their readers come second and always have.

The road-test for CBG will have been completed some months ago, as the tests take a good while to get to press.
Well said, as I said in a previous post norton is protected by the press and as above it seems the same as the old days, if only people knew what they were letting thereselfs in for...
my norton is gone now, thankfully and replaced by a 31yr old rc30 which has stood the test of time far longer than you could imagine from a norton.
 
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