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650 update ??

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by Fast Eddie, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. italia

    italia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Depends on your definition of 'light weight'. My Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory has a manufacturer claimed dry weight of 406 lbs. It doesn't feel like a light weight bike to me though. Obviously compared to the Commando 961, it's lighter and feels lighter. And I think the Norton Superlight will feel lighter than the Tuono.
     
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  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Have you ordered a SL Italia ?
     
  3. italia

    italia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Per Stuart Garner's recent tweet, a new US Distributor for Norton will be announced in early 2020. Until then, the two remaining US Norton dealers cannot get bikes. Hopefully the new distributor will have success in establishing a solid dealer network. As far as ordering an SL next year, I'm on the fence about it, as my left wrist prefers a more upright riding position than true sport bikes afford. But it's a damn sexy and tempting bike, and 100HP at 335 lbs is a great combo!
     
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  4. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    The Tuono also has 70 more hp
     
  5. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Yeah but but again the Ducati street fighter has up right bars, 208hp and in the low 400# the power to weight ratio is better than what the Superlight will be.
    Even your Tuono has a better power to weight ratio than the Superlight.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a norton fan and own two 961 and would love to own a Superlight but like you said, trying to get one is another story.
    Why keep waiting when many other great bikes are available as well.
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  6. italia

    italia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    I guess what I'm trying to get across has little to do with power or 'power to weight ratio'. It's more about flickability, quick turn-in, agility ... handling for a more general term. Light weight bikes can have a greater fun factor because they can be more easily tossed into a corner, can brake later (depending upon brakes), and generally carry more speed through a corner. My SWM Supermoto is far more agile than a normal street bike. It's a short wheel base, light weight, super tossable moto. By contrast, the Tuono is heavier and less responsive from a handling standpoint, and thus the transition from upright to leaned over into a corner is slower. No question the Tuono can out power anything else in my garage, but as they say, the fun is in the corners.
     
  7. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Lol and I guess I’m not making my point.
    We do not know what the Superlight will weigh. We’re told one thing but yet we can’t even see or feel the Superlight because it’s not even available yet.
    Remember when norton said the weight of the 961? Well they lied or mislead the actual weight. Sure, we can’t compare the Superlight to a 961 but I’m not believing anything about the Superlight until it’s in the hands of real people.
    As of now, I’d rather have a bike I can go purchase and enjoy.
    Still can’t do that with a make believe unicorn such as the Superlight.

    I completely understand your views of weight. I’m not a motorcycle racer but I’m a car racer and just like bikes cars also benefit from reduced weight.

    If you want light weight and are not concerned about hp or power to weight, maybe a bicycle is more of importance lol.
     
  8. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006

    I was just thinking the same, somehow 416 claimed turned into more like 516 real world.
    People let Norton off the hook for this with the 961 as it's not a performance machine and there were other matters to deal with.
    With the SL, the whole draw of the bike is spelled out right in its name, Superlight.
    What if it's not?
    Will it be OK if it's 100 lbs heavier than advertised as with the 961?


    Glen
     
  9. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    That’s exactly what I was meaning and you helped. Thank you.
    What if the Superlight isn’t so light? It takes torque to move something. And it takes horsepower to keep it going.
    There are many 100+ hp bikes available that are considered light weight.
    The MV AGUSTA Superveloce 800 has 148-153hp depending on whether it’s the Oro or non Oro version. It’s weight is 381 pounds or 173kg.
    Will the Superlight 650 really be 335 pounds?
    The Suzuki SV650 is 436 pounds.
    The Kawasaki Ninja 650R is 393 pounds.
    The new Aprilia 660RS is 372 pounds and 100+ hp
    The Yamaha FZ07 is 400 pounds.
    The CBR650F is 465 pounds.

    I’m really doubting the Superlight will be in the 335 pound range. I hope I’m wrong. Because 105hp at 335 pounds would be AWESOME!!!
    That’s 37 pounds lighter compared to its closest competitor, the Aprilia 660RS. Both 100+ hp and light weight compared to the others.
     
  10. jan nelder

    jan nelder

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    or superlight compared to the rest of their 650 range??
     
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  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    No it bloody won’t be OK Glen !!!

    And no, it’s bloody well not ok that the 961 is over 500lbs dry either. When my 961 shared shed space with my classic bikes it really made itself feel very heavy indeed by comparison. Mine came in just under 500lbs ‘fully wet’ (I estimated mine at 20-30lbs lighter than stock) and just wheeling it in and out of the shed it felt bloody heavy.

    I always told myself that “the weight seemed to disappear when moving”. Unfortunately, I now realise (having ridden my new Duc) that that just ain’t so. The 961s weight has a serious impact on its overall handling. And with so little rwbhp on tap, it also has an equally serious impact on its overall oomph too!
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  12. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    I agree that until we have some real evidence, both the weight and power of the SL are in question.

    Personally, I think that it will be both heavier and less powerful than Norton claim, simply because Norton’s track record in this area seems to make that inevitable.

    The question is by how much, 5%... 10%... 20%...?

    Scott, that list you gave is also equally suspect. As Glen posted in other threads a while back ‘creative weighing’ is endemic in the industry. Every single one of the bikes listed should have a big question mark next to it, unless independently verified.

    All we can hope for is that they at least lie by a similar margin, so even though the weights given are not reliable (in absolute terms) they are at least relevant (for comparison).

    And in comparing, IF the Aprilia really is ‘only’ 372lbs then there is a good chance for the SL with its full carbon bodywork, carbon wheels, lack of pillion accommodation, etc, to be close to their claim too.

    We’ll just have to wait and see. The specs as currently claimed really do make it sounds like a really exciting bike. But if it’s 20% heavier and 20% less powerful than claimed, it will suddenly be quite dull.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  13. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    I agree 100%. I mean not certain about the said bikes I posted, only going off what I read. But some YouTube owners reported similar weights on some of the bikes I listed. As far as the SL. Only time will tell. But I’m still skeptical.
     
  14. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
  15. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
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  16. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    So do I, maybe we should send an invoice for free advertising!!
     
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  17. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

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    Aug 10, 2016
    Lol
     
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  18. MxMartin

    MxMartin

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2017
    I turned 63 recently and my idea of a 'lightweight' is how easily I can roll my bike in/out over the small incline of my barn and across the grass to the tarmac :)
     
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  19. john clark

    john clark

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Hi Max same here 63 had my right knee and shin bone replaced recently now cannot start my J P N commando i have had from new also cannot cannot change gear on my 916 cafe racer looking to have both modified so i can ride them.Am i right in saying Clem and others have left the company.
     
  20. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I have also read here that Clem has left Norton.
     

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