2S Cam into an 850

Al Triumphs are a lot easier to kick over than any Norton and yes I have own a few kick start Triumphs even with race cams they are still easier to kick over than a Norton, as well most EI don't fully fire until the second stroke so having a full kick on the kicker is needed, my Joe Hunt takes a full kick on the lever when cold but once it's been fired up for the day will fire up on 1/2 a kick or lazy kick for the rest of the day, my motor has a lot of compression, my mates can't kick it to life and one of my mate's kicks his preunit Triumph with race cam and higher compression and he has troubles kicking my Norton, he just hasn't got the Norton kick start knack.
Be honest Al how long has it been since you have kicked a high compression Norton to life or any other kick start British bike, most of your stories are days gone by, in your own admission its been over 10 since you been on your Norton and the last 30/40 years only been out once or twice a year on the track, you talk about your 500 Triumph race bike, they are easy to kick over, big singles are harder to kick over but if you kick over a high compression Norton then a big bore single be similar style to kicking.
When I first brought my Norton new I was 17 years old and a skinny runt at that, I had skinny chicken legs but I learned the Norton kick start knack real quick and by the way I still have skinny chicken legs.

Ashley

When I was a kid I kick started a 1000cc Vincent which was on 13 to 1 comp. I would not try it these days. I had an operation to remove the cataract on my left eye. In a few weeks time they will remove the one on my right eye. I took my wife's car to Wangaratta to be fixed. While I was waiting, I went to to movies which was upstairs. As I came back down, I got to the hand rail. When I reached the bottom, because of my glasses, I misjudged the height of the last step. So I crashed. I landed on my right knee which had been operated on many years ago. So I ended up in trouble again. When I originally broke it, I did not know it had a piece of bone floating in the joint. I tried to kick start a Bonneville and ended up on the ground. So then I had to learn to walk again. I don't remember the pain, but I know it hurt. It has taken three weeks for my knee to become painless again after my latest idiocy. These days, when I start to walk, I feel giddy. But it is probably my glasses. After February, I should be brand new again. The two lenses in my glasses are different from each other, and the remaining cataract affects my depth perception. The two eyes compensate for each other, but even now the colours and contrast are much better,
My 850 is on standard comp - with the angle-grinder powered starter, it starts immediately when it is in second gear. I don't think it has much compression. The kick start ratio in your Norton gearbox might have been designed for an side valve engine..
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ashman said:

and by the way I still have skinny chicken legs.

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TMI

Al my gear box is all stock Commando, my head has been shaved and the rebore was done with tight tolerance from final hone to bore and I been kicking it to life for near 50 years, I think I have the knack of kicking my Norton, my motor isn't standard compression, so I do know how to kick my bike as well as big bore or single bore British bikes.
One of my old bike riding mate's decided to buy a 750 Commando, never owned a British bike and one day here he was trying to start his Norton after 30 minute of kicking and bad language he gave up, watching him I knew what he was doing wrong, trying to kick it like his old Japanese dirt bikes, it also had Mikuni carbs on it and he was giving throttle when kicking, after a few minute worn out he said to me ok mr smart arse you kick it, one kick and she fired up, then another "smart arse" lol, he even got a Norton tattoo on his upper arm when he brought it, well he lost the love of that Norton and never did get to learn the kick start knack, that was over 40 years ago and we still ride together and I still put sh it on him about his Norton tattoo as he never brought or rode another old British bike again.
But as You have said if the carbs are tuned right, ignition set right, no matter what cam you are running, its all about the spark and that first kick for the day should be a decent one and its should fire on the first kick, if you do it right and with my Joe Hunt mind does every time.

Ashley

Somebody turn the record over I think this side is skipping.

Perhaps there's fuzz on the needle.
I put a used Combat cam in my MKIII with no other changes because it was available and was work hardened and I was tired of cams going flat. It hasn't gone flat. It improved my gas mileage significantly, will bog on the bottom end and has better top end. If I rode it around town all the time I'd hunt up a stock cam but here in the boonies it's just fine. Being an e-start that works, I have no idea if it's easier to start.

Schwany said:

For folks that want to play with cam timing RGM sells what they call a special camshaft sprocket with 3 keyways. Part number RGM1080. Not particularly cheap, but more versatile than an offset woodruff key.

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Don’t they sell a Vernier sprocket?

Thomasa said:

Perhaps there's fuzz on the needle.
I put a used Combat cam in my MKIII with no other changes because it was available and was work hardened and I was tired of cams going flat. It hasn't gone flat. It improved my gas mileage significantly, will bog on the bottom end and has better top end. If I rode it around town all the time I'd hunt up a stock cam but here in the boonies it's just fine. Being an e-start that works, I have no idea if it's easier to start.

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Did you not have to machine cut outs in the pistons?

Nourish said:

Don’t they sell a Vernier sprocket?

Did you not have to machine cut outs in the pistons?

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Not that I recall. It's an 850.

I am running flat top Hepilite pistons on my 850 with the 2S cam and shaved head and have done so since 1982 and original valves.

Schwany said:

Somebody turn the record over I think this side is skipping.

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Well it might be a skipping record but Al seems to know a lot about 2S cams although he has never used one and it's been so long since he has ridden his own bike and he keeps on and on about racing, but my bike and most hotrod builds are for the road, not the track and he hasn't ridden a bike on the road since he was 29, he is 80 now so you do the sums, but hearing the same thing over and over, I been running a 2S cam in my 850 since 1982 and I know how my Norton performs with what I have done with my motor.
I don't like to be rude to anyone, but I been riding my Norton for 47+ years on the road and 42 years with a 2S cam and really I don't care what other think of the 2S cam but I know it made a big difference to my motor performance, but it's not the only thing that has been done to my motor, built for a very reliable road going Norton.

Ashley

ashman said:

Well it might be a skipping record but Al seems to know a lot about 2S cams although he has never used one and it's been so long since he has ridden his own bike and he keeps on and on about racing, but my bike and most hotrod builds are for the road, not the track and he hasn't ridden a bike on the road since he was 29, he is 80 now so you do the sums, but hearing the same thing over and over, I been running a 2S cam in my 850 since 1982 and I know how my Norton performs with what I have done with my motor.
I don't like to be rude to anyone, but I been riding my Norton for 47+ years on the road and 42 years with a 2S cam and really I don't care what other think of the 2S cam but I know it made a big difference to my motor performance, but it's not the only thing that has been done to my motor, built for a very reliable road going Norton.

Ashley

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Ash,
Al is a forum bridge troll. Once you "Well you have to know these things" know, you can now carry on.


No more skipping record!

I plan on using a Combat cam in my 850 Rebuild.
Cheers,
T

ashman said:

Well it might be a skipping record but Al seems to know a lot about 2S cams although he has never used one and it's been so long since he has ridden his own bike and he keeps on and on about racing, but my bike and most hotrod builds are for the road, not the track and he hasn't ridden a bike on the road since he was 29, he is 80 now so you do the sums, but hearing the same thing over and over, I been running a 2S cam in my 850 since 1982 and I know how my Norton performs with what I have done with my motor.
I don't like to be rude to anyone, but I been riding my Norton for 47+ years on the road and 42 years with a 2S cam and really I don't care what other think of the 2S cam but I know it made a big difference to my motor performance, but it's not the only thing that has been done to my motor, built for a very reliable road going Norton.

Ashley

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You forgot to mention the Joe Hunt magneto and one kick start.

I've done a lot of things to my P11 750 engine. Too many to mention. I know about the 2S cam performance except the one I installed is of unknown manufacture. I got it from Bob Raber late 80's early 90's. It made a difference. Came on like Comnoz and everyone else that has installed a 2S cam has mentioned.

What I'm calling a 2S is stamped with 2 S's. Could be megacycle or some other US cam manufacturer manufactured the cam.



I'm using the JS Motorsports JS2 cam pictured below now. Similar performance to the cam pictured above, but smoother ramps than a 2S. JS claims it is more like a PW3. Whatever it is supposed to be my engine build suits me, and is more reliable than a stock Norton by leaps and bounds.

I think I'm repeating myself again. I better go clean the fuzz off my needle.

I have compared the 2S cam I have, with a standard cam and decided not to use it. To me it looks as though it is from a previous generation of race cams. In the evolution of Triumph cams, GP cams were valve-droppers. Also I do not like machining cutaways in the tops of pistons to get clearance. With most race cams, you cannot see a difference by looking, you need to install and measure. The 2S cam obviously has much more lift. I won't go in that direction.

Al The 2S cam is not a Triumph cam, I am still running my original valves in my head, the head has been shaved and ported I am running 40th oversize Hepolite flat top pistons so no cutaways at all on the pistons, I made sure the valves weren't hitting the pistons when building the motor.
Anyway Al you won't need to install a 2S cam as you no longer ride your bike, sorry but from your own words and you will never know how much better your bike will go with running a 2S cam.
I say no more.
There are so many different high lift cams manufactured these days compared to back in the 70s and as I say mine is built for the road and built to stage one in the high-performance section of my manual, if I was going to build for the track, I would use the race cam and stage 2 in the high-performance section of my manual.
Skipping records and fluff on the needle, yeah I have a few Led Zepplin records that skip from my younger days and every one jumping around to our favorite songs played loudly while pissed and stoned lol, couldn't get away with that these days without someone complaining.

Ashley

ashman said:

Skipping records and fluff on the needle, yeah I have a few Led Zepplin records that skip from my younger days and every one jumping around to our favorite songs played loudly while pissed and stoned lol, couldn't get away with that these days without someone complaining.

Ashley

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Might that be SWMBO? That's my problem.