1975 850 Commando pinion removal tool issue

p400

p400

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Disassembling a 850 Norton for rebuild, to the point of removing pinion gear.
Purchase the silver plated tool and could not get the three jaws to tighten around the pinion, altho when off the shaft seemed to tighten down to the size needed.

Purchased a second tool , not plated black oxide finish because I thought the plating was causing the issue.

Neither tool will close far enough or tight enough to allow pulling the pinion.

What is the issue here? Have others had this same issue ?

20221210_PinionTools.jpg
 
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I don't have any ideas on what to grind.
Have others had this issue and resolved with grinding some part of the tool?

Are correct Norton pinion tools sold to assure correct fit?
 
L.A.B. said:
Unfortunately, the same tool is advertised as being suitable for both Triumph and Norton but you will probably need to grind the jaws to get it to fit the Norton pinion.
Click to expand...
Yes , I had to take a Dremel tool cutting / grinding wheel to the tips of the 3 jaws to make the 3 sharper , to grab better. This worked and a little thick oil to the threaded moving parts of the tool itself. Grab deep as possible .
 
Thank you, Both these tools go into a thread bind on the tool main threads before they reach tight closure when installing to fit the pinion gear.
Yes, I can see a more square or over square jaw end would be helpful, but neither new tool will close to tightly surround the pinion!
Not making any sense.
Off the shaft/pinion in my hands the tools seem to be able to reach correct closure.
oil grease didn't seem to allow more closure.
This does not make sense.

So for the past 50 years this tool required customer fitting to be useful?

Andover? RGM? don't sell a Norton useful pinion tool?
I see Andover is out of stock.
Maybe Andover is out because of this quality issue?
 
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I have the MCA made version which I purchased in the '70s. I've used it maybe 2-3 times and don't remember having issues on my Combat. The jaws have not been ground.
Russ
 
I brought one and had to grind the jaw tips to fit they are a wee bit thick to fit right, but once you do the grind down will work they way it should there is not much room behind the pinion gear and the jaws on the new pullers are just to thick.
 
Had to thin the bottom portion of the teeth to fit better. Also had to use a pair of channel lock pliers to really crank down on the largest knurled ring.
 
As others have said, file the bottom and possibly the slant to the bottom until you can manually close the tool around the pinion - then hand-tighten the sleeve. I have three of them and none fit Norton or Triumph without slimming them down. When they properly fit against the gear, hand-tight on the sleeve is plenty.
 
Another option is to pull out the heat gun and toast up the gear itself. Or behind it . Squirt some penetrant into this area at the same time . Every Norton owner needs a heat gun . And a freezer !
 
p400 said:
So for the past 50 years this tool required customer fitting to be useful?
Click to expand...
p400 said:
Are correct Norton pinion tools sold to assure correct fit?

Andover? RGM? don't sell a Norton useful pinion tool?
I see Andover is out of stock.
Maybe Andover is out because of this quality issue?
Click to expand...

The problem appears to be because the actual Norton pinion extractor tool (ET2003/06-7524) is no longer available. Mick Hemmings mentions in his engine rebuild video that the jaws of the pattern tool may have to be thinned down to fit behind the pinion.

batrider said:
I have the MCA made version which I purchased in the '70s. I've used it maybe 2-3 times and don't remember having issues on my Combat. The jaws have not been ground.
Click to expand...

If "bought in the '70s" then it's likely to be the correct Norton extractor.
 
Thanks to all, but without meaningful graphics the modifications mentioned don't make clear solutions.
However I did get some clarity from dynodave on what maybe the issue.

PinionToolJawIssue1.jpg

The curved end of the puller jaws would seem to be stopping full closure of the jaw set, specifically to fit the triangle Norton washer !

So what do the jaw ends of an early functioning tool look like?

I looked around for clear photos of Norton specific pinion tools and came across this UK sold tool P158 from eBay.
And it shows the tips of the jaw arcs ground off.


PinionToolJawIssue2.jpg

1975 850 Commando pinion removal tool issue
 
p400 said:
Thanks to all, but without meaningful graphics the modifications mentioned don't make clear solutions.
However I did get some clarity from dynodave on what maybe the issue.

View attachment 101958

The curved end of the puller jaws would seem to be stopping full closure of the jaw set, specifically to fit the triangle Norton washer !

So what do the jaw ends of an early functioning tool look like?

I looked around for clear photos of Norton specific pinion tools and came across this tool from eBay.
And it shows the tips of the jaw arcs ground off.
Click to expand...
The "triangle" washer is there to give you clearance to get the puller tight to the pinion. The washer is not stopping it.

Take off some at the red arrow and if needed some at the orange arrow - each leg.



1975 850 Commando pinion removal tool issue
 
p400 said:
I looked around for clear photos of Norton specific pinion tools and came across this UK sold tool P158 from eBay.
And it shows the tips of the jaw arcs ground off.
Click to expand...

MCA (the manufacturer) P158 "Tri/BSA" extractor is the one I have.
It was bought to use on Triumphs and as yet I've had no cause to try to use it on my Commando.

https://www.mca-aston.co.uk//parts/search/p158
"P158, 06-7524 61-6019, 06-7524 ENGINE PINION EXTRACTOR TRI/BSA"

1975 850 Commando pinion removal tool issue
1975 850 Commando pinion removal tool issue
 
marshg246 said:
The "triangle" washer is there to give you clearance to get the puller tight to the pinion. The washer is not stopping it.

Take off some at the red arrow and if needed some at the orange arrow - each leg.
Click to expand...
Greg, Please post a meaningful picture of the pinion tool you use on Mk3 pinions. I think that will help all on this tool issue, thanks
 
PinionToolJawIssueP158b.jpgPinionToolJawIssueP158a.jpg

I notice a distinct difference in the end profile of the MCA P158 as compared to "new" pullers.
The MCA P158 does appear too blunt.

These "new" pullers have been tapered down as Greg suggest, but they lack the arc modification .

PinionToolJawIssueP158c.jpgPinionToolJawIssueP158d.jpg
 
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Basically, the jaw lugs must be thin enough to fit in the gaps provided by the triangular washer, so must be slightly thinner than the washer...
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
...I can only suggest you remove the jaws and grind or file the lugs down and straighten the lug faces until they slide into the gaps provided by the washer flats.
 
p400 said:
Greg, Please post a meaningful picture of the pinion tool you use on Mk3 pinions. I think that will help all on this tool issue, thanks
Click to expand...
Look at my post #16 It's as meaningful as I can produce.
 
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