1974 850cc Cafe Racer Conversion

I have just joined the forum and have never owned a Norton. This was at a local country auction where one person sold all of his belongings and is headed around the World. I knew enough about bikes to be dangerous and had time to read the extensive documentation , work orders etc. Ii appears that the bike is a ground up restoration of a an orignal restoration and converted to cafe style between 1998-2002. It has every work order, titles and boxes of original parts, spares etc..
It has rear control conversion etc. The only what I believe is a negative is on the exhaust ports there seems to be a circle of professionaly done weld around each as if they were made larger? I am a real newbie and would like to at minimimum get the bike running. The clutch does not disenaguge when squeezed, there is a new cable.

Questions:
1. is replacement of cable an easy task?
2. Should there be alternate clutch problems I should look for.
3. Does the conversion appear to be well don ?
4. Does it take away from the value?
5. I assume they sold or sell a conversion lit from roadster to cafe?
Any assistance will be appreciated. I know that I bough a non-stock bike for probably what I could have bought a stock one for on eBay. This one really stirred my adrenalin. Any response or assistance in telling me what I have will be appreciated,

Charles In Maine

Visit and click on Norton in album: http://www.techantiques.com/gallery

Hello Charles and welcome to the forum.

I'm afraid that Firefox can't find the link that you've posted so I haven't seen any pictures.

If the clutch requires pressure to pull then the problem is unlikely to be the cable. Could it just be that the plates have stuck from standing ? Try pulling the lever and kicking over the engine. It may be enough.

Have you received a clutch spring compressor ? You'll need it sooner or later !

Welding around the exhaust is likely to be a repair of stripped threads. If it's been done neatly then it wouldn't bother me. It would be less desirable on a catalogue spec rebuild.

If a Commando hasn't had the frame cut or the engine badly messed with then the cosmetics are just a matter of personal choice. A non-standard bike may find a buyer less easily but to the chap who wants it, it might even be worth more. It would however rarely recuperate the costs of conversion.

Firefox 5.0 works.

Thanks for response, please let me know if photo link to Norton album works.

The clutch cable moves when handle squeezed though with ease as if un-hooked at clutch lever end. Is it an easy job to check clutch end cable connection . The past owner had a new clutch cable with note to install. Note: I will not have opportunity to speak with prior owner for he has left country and sold the Norton and a mint Triumph 73 Bonneville at auction. I elected the Norton even though it had been converted to cafe config. , guess personal choice.

Thanks for any assistance, if any Norton members in Maine I would gladly give you a call at your discretion.
I may be contacted at antiques@midcoast.com or at 207-832-4570

Charles In Maine
1973 Norton 850 Commando
Engine # 318127

Looks to be a very nice Commando, with cafe racfer styling cues that may or may not be to everyone's personal taste (although apparently cleanly done).

The exhaust spigot thread repair is a common one, and SHOULD provide better durability than the original threads. (still need to check nut tightness from time to time, especially on extended road trips)

It is a very simple matter to remove the two screws holding the transmission inspection cap, use a large screwdriver to lift the clutch lever arm, insert the cable end, release the lever and off you go (after a rod adjustment on the opposite side of the bike and cable adjustment at the handlebar end). If it doesn't seem right, you might need to remove the outer transmission cover and fiddle with the ball and ramp bits; perhaps the ball is wedged out of place.

If your spare parts include the original footpegs, tail light, seat & handlebars, there is no more to reverting to original Roadster trim than that. If that is your deisre, you have a couple hundred dollars worth of cafe bits that you could sell to several interested parties on this forum to recoup some of your purchase cost.

You'll want to check the state of the fuel in the tank, and may need to remove and inspect the carbutretor bowls for varnished fuel, water and/or debris. It's also quite likely you'll need a new battery, and you should definitely check the state of the disc brake fluid and tires before starting off farther than your driveway.

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome to the forum, Charles.

Charles In Maine said:

1. is replacement of cable an easy task?

2. Should there be alternate clutch problems I should look for.

Click to expand...

This could be a cable problem? A problem with the clutch lifter mechanism? Or a problem with the clutch itself, but before you do anything, I suggest you read through the relevant section of the workshop manual: http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repai ... mmando.pdf

Charles In Maine said:

3. Does the conversion appear to be well don ?

Click to expand...

Yes it looks OK.

Charles In Maine said:

4. Does it take away from the value?

Click to expand...

Don't worry about the value. If you like it, RIDE it and ENJOY it!

Charles In Maine said:

5. I assume they sold or sell a conversion lit from roadster to cafe?

Click to expand...

Over the years there have been countless suppliers of custom parts for Commandos, so I'm not sure anyone will be able to say who "they" are or were, but these are not factory modifications.
However your Commando appears to have only been lightly modified, in that the handlebars, seat, rear set foot controls are non-standard, along with a few other minor parts such as the tail lamp, and the speedo is also from an earlier model Commando. The exhaust port threads have been repaired which is evident from the repair work done around the exhaust ports which you have noticed.

(Link works with IE8)

Many thanks! A most responsive forum which is most appreciated.There are several boxes of spares, three various handlebars, seats, tool kits, chain case covers, lights, chains new in box, and all old parts removed. The past owner(s) I believe retained not only ever part removed from pistons to valves but also bought two new parts when ordering any over the years. The Norton was complete with his Belstaff and denim riding jackets , over 50 vintage Norton pins and patches, etc.. I will have to take a lesson on kick start protocol since my police Harley starts with a button. First to fix the clutch cable or clutch, it seems so easy to have the bike shift in to gear when kick starting with proximity to shifter lever.... and w/o a working clutch this can only be bad...

Thanks for placing a few of my photos from http://www.techantiques.com/gallery as inserted photos in to your reply.

Charles In Maine

"Description: Engine Number 318127 Frame: 064140 Belived to be a full restoration / conversion of an original with documentation and all original parts present."

"064140" is not the frame number

It is the frame's part number, which is normally found stamped on the front face of the left hand fuel tank mounting bracket?

The VIN number should be stamped on the red plate riveted to the headstock, and this number would have matched the engine and gearbox numbers when it left the factory. There may be an additional 850 F1***** number stamped on the frame directly alongside the plate?

You won't have any issues hitting the shifter when kickstarting, no worries.

You need to learn the delicate balancing act that is proper kickstarting, especially on uneven surfaces!

Turn on fuel taps, select neutral, pull in clutch and stab the kicker to be sure the clutch is disengaged.

Tickle the carbs till you get a bit of a dribble of fuel, then kick the engine slowly till the pistons just go over Top Dead Center (pressure will seem to release).

Turn on your key, push the slack out of the kickstarter, and hop upwards shifting all your weight into a free-fall onto the kicker, with your kicking knee slightly bent to avoid hyperextension.

If the bike didn't start, tear the engine down and find out what's wrong with it. Or kick it a couple more times, whichever you prefer.

As requested here is a close up photo:

Kind of a funny looking repair on the exhaust nut threads. Appears that the nut is welded to the head but surely not.

Exhaust flange nipples that accept nuts are professionaly welded to head. Repair? Has anyone experienced this on other Commando's?

Thanks

Charles In Maine

Yes, Phil Radford at Fair Spares fixed a head for me in this manner (my 75 Mark III)

Charles

Looks like a fine '74 and depending upon your long range plans for it and baring any real serious issues with the motor or transmission should be a runner without too much trouble. As GP said converting it back to standard is an easy task whether you have the parts or not (almost every part needed for these bikes is available) and depending on how long it's been since the bike was ridden or started you may want to do the following;

If you plan to keep the bike and ride it, I recommend getting the INOA Tech Digest (join the INOA too while your at it) and reading through it to get a quick idea of what it takes to finely tweek a Commando into a semi civilized ride. But before you try to start it and ride it go through the standard drill to check out what you're up against i.e. drain the oil and check for metallic bits, drop the float bowls and clean them, if gunked up disassemble the carbs and clean them, pull the plugs and crank the motor over listening for any unusual noises (hard to define but you will know if you hear them), check the valve clearances, look at the points to see if they are ok or if it has an electronic ignition, with the plugs out and ignition on ground the plugs to see if it's getting spark when cranked over, button it up, put in fresh gasoline and oil and give her a go. Hopefully if all is well it will start and run (any dangerous noises shut her down and go back to step one). If your not into mechanical intrigue, find an INOA member in your area to assist you or direct you to a good source. Oh yes and do the routine for pre-ride on the transmission and most surely the brakes before you actually go for a ride.

Most of the Commando owners on the forum have made a life long commitment to their bikes and look at their relationship with them as a, well sort of marriage, and take the good along with the bad. If your not into that and simply want to flip your find for a profit (nothing wrong with this either), get it running put it on FLea Bay as a rare and unusual, matching number barn find with a $9,000 reserve and see what happens. My bet though is that once you get it running and take a ride you will never want to sell it

Scooter

Charles
I hope you don't get any funny ideas like converting it to steam power or anything... I like that Bugatti style racing engine!

That thread repair was common in New England when I was a kid. There was a guy in Gardiner that trained at Bath Iron works who did a good job welding those in. He welded a case for me and did a nice job. It drove to SF and got me around for years.

Many thanks to members of this Forum! After working clutch lever, adjusting and freeing up clutch plates I took my first ride on my Norton. I can see where one must develop a new vocabulary of mind-set and actions ie. shifting, left vs right controls, cafe' style. She ran strong and with pride! I have fallen Love with its form, I will try and not fall in Love with its function, in that I have a daily driver cycle and look for an appropriate home for this incredible machine that I have stumbled on.

Thanks again for information and encouragement. If by chance after a few more rides I begin to leave the Harley Police Roadking in the barn and find myself falling in love with the Norton's function , I am sure I will require further guidance and counsel or counseling..

Appreciation,

Charles In Maine
http://www.techantiques.com/gallery