1972 Roadster Rebuild

grandpaul said:

Zener diode, rectifier, horn, to name a few...

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Well you are not aware that the rectifier red wire connection is for the rectifier stud not the frame, and the same with the zener.
The zener red wire must be connected to the zener for electrical reasons. The zener is connected to the Z plate only for the heat sink.
For both items, the red wire is the connection, not the frame. Both items could be disconnected from the frame and will work functionally if the red wire is connected, except the zener will die for lack of heat sink.
If you were to remove and isolate both wire grounds, and both rectifier and zener were only frame grounded the system would NOT work except for the headlight bucket ground which must return through the steering bearing balls or the clutch cable to the 3engine/head @ headsteady (spark & points current).

I appreciate your input Dave, but I haven't decided how I'm going to wire this bike yet. From scratch, or + or - ground, or modify a new stock harness, or something else? And mostly any motorcycle electrical problems I've ever had have been from poor grounds. So getting the frame right for good grounding at this point of reassembly seemed like a good plan. Was really fun too.
Bill

The horns are 6 ohms and have two terminals, grounding the body alone will not allow functioning.

Unless you're aiming for factory finish originality, I would recommend a DIY custom harness. I did that on my rebuild, it's not as hard as it may seem in advance and you can make it 100% right for your needs, plus you'll know every wire and connector.

I agree, thank you Eddie.

Well, looks like there's one more PITA thing I need to do. The bike came to me w/o a side stand, and it looks to me like it has the '71 style side stand frame mounting lug (although it is a '72, #201202). Option #1 would be to weld on the Old Britts up graded side stand lug bracket kit #38-200002 (A.N. #06.3049) while the frame is still bare, and get all new side stand parts (kit #06-6357). Option #2 would be to leave as is and get new side stand parts - maybe. That's where I'm confused. The Andover website says #06-6357 side stand kit is for "1971-ON", but Old Britts says that kit is for '72 on. But Old Britts and A.N. also say that the bare #06-5490 side stand is for '71-ON. I'm guessing that the # 06-6357 (which includes #06-5490 stand) side stand kit would be best to pivot on the later style pivot bolt, not the '71 style lug pin. If that's correct, then option #2 is out. Could someone on here verify that for me please?
Bill

pantah_good said:

I agree, thank you Eddie.

Well, looks like there's one more PITA thing I need to do. The bike came to me w/o a side stand, and it looks to me like it has the '71 style side stand frame mounting lug (although it is a '72, #201202). Option #1 would be to weld on the Old Britts up graded side stand lug bracket kit #38-200002 (A.N. #06.3049) while the frame is still bare, and get all new side stand parts (kit #06-6357). Option #2 would be to leave as is and get new side stand parts - maybe. That's where I'm confused. The Andover website says #06-6357 side stand kit is for "1971-ON", but Old Britts says that kit is for '72 on. But Old Britts and A.N. also say that the bare #06-5490 side stand is for '71-ON. I'm guessing that the # 06-6357 (which includes #06-5490 stand) side stand kit would be best to pivot on the later style pivot bolt, not the '71 style lug pin. If that's correct, then option #2 is out. Could someone on here verify that for me please?
Bill

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That pix looks like a 71 style sidestand. horrible... I've done a few repair/upgrades and made my own kit long before a kit/parts was ever publicly offered here in the USA. I bought a kit in anticipation of a frame upgrade I have to do.
Best is of course to surgically de-manufacture the 71 mount off. Skillful grinding will get you there.

Do it before you put any parts on the frame.

Yep, I agree now is the time for sure. Option 1 it is. Fred and Ella will be back from vacation Monday, just in time. I do love ordering Norton parts, and I'll have all day tomorrow for some serious rationalizing.

I don't think any of the reputable parts vendors are selling the 71 kick stand.

There is fix posted somewhere on here for the '71 sidestand retention. A lot easier and less costly than converting over to '72+ sidestand.
The '72+ sidestand is super long and quite heavy. Make sure to mock it up before you do the final weld. The bumper needs to make contact with the frame when in the folded position.

I have not yet found a '71 sidestand for sale…..still looking for one.

Whew! That "surgery" was a ball buster. The new Old Britts side stand parts and lug are due Friday.

I'm trying to pre-assemble the new sidestand parts for when tack welding the lug in the right position to be sure it folds up properly. The #41 bushing does not fit easily into the hole for it in the stand arm. I deburred the hole and froze the bushing, but it only went in .1" or so, and I didn't want bring on a hammer. Is that meant to be a press fit or should I spin the bushings o.d. on some fine emery paper to get a slide in fit?

Are you sure you have the correct bush (pivot spacer) to match the stand?
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15973/pivot-spacer-side-stand
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/16529/pivot-spacer-side-stand

It should be a sliding fit. The pivot spacer is clamped tight to the bracket by the nut and bolt and the stand then pivots on the bush/spacer.

I think so, all the stand parts came all wrapped together as p/n 06-6357 the complete side stand kit, and the spacer/bushing o.d. is .687" and stand hole i.d. is about the same. The pre Mk3 spacer o.d. is supposed to be .625". Looks like some sanding is in order.
http://www.oldbritts.com/alt_065490.html

Dress the mating surfaces with emery cloth. You can buy a roll version and cut a 4" strip, then hacksaw a slit in a piece of 1/4" diameter soft metal bar or pipe. Fold the strip of emery paper and slip it in the slit, then chuck it in a drill and hit the inside diameter of the hole. A few quick passes ought to get you there.

Good tip about doing the hole, thanks.

If I'm not mistaken, the side stand bush is supposed to be hardened. However I have no clue what AN is selling
Folks who just turn up a "cosmetic" replica from steel bar stock will find they DON"T hold up at all under use. I've seen it several times.
If you can run a file over it and pick up metal then ??? it's garbage for me.
Some time I may pull the side stand off my 5 mile MKIII and harness test it. The last time I visited this spacer topic was quite a while ago.
Yes it would seem a bigger bush for a reconditioned early side stand would be good.

Yes, I hear you, and it is soft, but it now fits and I'm continuing on with it. I'm a center stand person anyway, and I'll keep it lubed. To be fair, AN labeled it a "spacer" and not a "bushing". Aren't "bushings" assumed to be able to withstand a little wear - maybe? Now we're just waiting for my welder buddy to get back from Florida.

My MKIII side stand bracket needs to be fixed and will have to wait until the next tear down. So I am stuck with the center stand only. Since 1990, I have aged and am 30 pounds lighter. I still have a very good back and am more challenged (but capable) to hoist the MKIII on to the centerstand. I have to do this every time I park mt bike.
A friend in the club from northern NH, for whom I'm rebuilding the major components for his MKIII, wanted to use and ride this machine. Last time he rode a commando was over 15 years ago.... now aged and not being too big or strong, I had suspicions of his capability to physically man handle this bike. As a wake up call, I offered to have him try mine. Upon finally getting enough ummmph to get it off the centerstand, it fell toward him and he was totally unable to control it. Predicting this outcome, and having advised him of such, I was on his side and caught the bike before he was crushed. He has accepted his limitation and declared he will likely be selling the bike once completed.

Early frame mounted centerstands are quite different from the 71 on cradle mounted centerstand. However the geometry of all the centerstands for 71+ are identical and only the few pounds of MKIII gear is what is extra and IMO is not all that significant.
Possibly a customized re-engineered center stand will be an option.

pantah_good said:

Yes, I hear you, and it is soft, but it now fits and I'm continuing on with it. I'm a center stand person anyway, and I'll keep it lubed. To be fair, AN labeled it a "spacer" and not a "bushing". Aren't "bushings" assumed to be able to withstand a little wear - maybe? Now we're just waiting for my welder buddy to get back from Florida.

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Surely it’s better if the spacer / bush is soft? Then IT is sacrificial, rather than the side stand.

Good point Eddie, they're cheap.
And Dave, I'm guessing you remember how crappy my back was when I was down at your shop last summer. Well, it's actually a little worse now and I'm coming up on 74, so being able to put this bike up on the center stand may become an issue. Actually, a few weeks ago I had to move my R90S in the garage, and wasn't able to get that bugger back up on its center stand. But that stand doesn't let you put much weight on it with your foot to help lever the bike up. As I recall before I disassembled this Norton, I don't remember it being very hard to get up on the center stand, so we'll see. The VA's got a second back surgery scheduled next month as well as some muscle related tests, so things could look a lot better when spring gets here, as they always do in New England.