1971 Commando SS headlight wiring

Hello all!
As mentioned in another thread a friend of mine and me are putting together a 1971 Commando Street Scrambler. We bought the correct small 6" headlamp for it. But getting all the wires in and closing the lamp is almost impossible. The light switch and the idiot lights are in the way. Also the bundle of snakes of all the wires from the handlebar switches etc.
Because of the tab of the headlamp front ring which goes into a slot at the underside of the shell I cannot get the front glas/refelctor/ring assembly straight into the shell.
I have to insert the tab into the slot first and then tilt the assembly towards the shell but the connectors for the H4 bulb do not get past the light switch etc.

Anybody has a pic of the inside of his lampshell?

We assembled the headlight without bulb and connector to get it ready for a display at a bike fair this weekend.
All show -no go!
But I guess the owner wants a working headlight.

Even with a 7" shell the switch and indicator lights get in the way. I had to bend the unused terminal of my switch out of the way to get an H4 LED bulb to clear it. I think the old pre-focus bulbs sit closer to the lens, maybe you should choose a different style lamp.

Your project is very curious...
My 71 and 72 both combine the switch gear wires with the main harness under the tank, not in the headlight bucket?

.....Also, if the switch cluster wires are incorrectly routed inside the headlamp shell, there would be nothing to connect the switch cluster horn (purple/black) and direction indicator feed (light green/brown) wires to, as those wires are not in the headlamp harness.

dynodave said:

Your project is very curious...
My 71 and 72 both combine the switch gear wires with the main harness under the tank, not in the headlight bucket?

Click to expand...

As did my '73 750 as it came from the dealer. I always figured it was done that way to save space in the headlight bucket.

I had a 71 tangerine ss new in april 71. I wanted a 71 roadster at the time .I put a larger headlight and tank and made it into a black roadster.I still have the ownership but the bike was stolen years later. Anyway I still have the original small headlight in a box.I will take a few pics and post them for you if it helps.
Cheers
Bruce

L.A.B. said:

.....Also, if the switch cluster wires are incorrectly routed inside the headlamp shell, there would be nothing to connect the switch cluster horn (purple/black) and direction indicator feed (light green/brown) wires to, as those wires are not in the headlamp harness.

Click to expand...

Yes, makes a lot of sense to me now!
I worked on pre 71 Commandos before and there is only one Wipac Triconsul switch for light, horns which connects to the wires in the headlamp shell.
So I thought it would be the same on a 1971 Commando.
Also as you mentioned I found no horn wire and indicator wires routing to the loom from inside the shell.
After the show we will re-route the wires in the correct way.
So the snake´s nest under the tank will increase in size.

rivera said:

So I thought it would be the same on a 1971 Commando.

Click to expand...

I find it highly understated and misunderstood that in the years of command production, the actual range of production differences were highly underacknowledged. One of the differences is that MY = model year is almost irrelevant. By closely studying series and variants of model runs shows a constant change of parts and modifications.
The final result is the unfortunate but humorous advice some folks offer not realizing how underinformed they really are...
Does this list help that much?

750cc
Original Commando 4/68-3/69
750 R 3/69-9/69
750S 3/69-6/70
Fastback 3/69-8/70
Fastback II 9/70-12/70
Fastback III 1/71-12/71
Fastback IV 1/72-3/73
Fastback LR (Long Range) 4/71-12/71
Fastback LR MkIV 1/72-2/73
Roadster 3/70-12/70
Roadster II 1/71-12/71
(no MkIII Roadster, apparently!)
Roadster IV 1/72-2/73
Roadster V 3/73-10/73
SS (Street Scrambler) 3/71-10/71
PR (Production Racer) 4/71-10/73
Hi-Rider 5/71-12/71
Hi-Rider IV 1/72-2/73
Hi-Rider V 3/73-10/73
Interstate 1/72-2/73
Interstate V 3/73-10/73
850cc
Roadster 1 3/73-12/73
Roadster 1A 9/73-2/74
Roadster 2/2A 1/74-2/75
Roadster 3 2/75-9/77
Interstate 1 3/73-12/73
Interstate 1A 9/73-2/74
Interstate 2/2A 1/74-2/75
Interstate 3 2/75-9/77
Hi-Rider 1 3/73-12/73
Hi-Rider 2 1/74-2/75
Hi-Rider 3 3/75-?
John Player Replica 11/73-2/75

rivera said:

Yes, makes a lot of sense to me now!
I worked on pre 71 Commandos before and there is only one Wipac Triconsul switch for light, horns which connects to the wires in the headlamp shell.
So I thought it would be the same on a 1971 Commando.
Also as you mentioned I found no horn wire and indicator wires routing to the loom from inside the shell.
After the show we will re-route the wires in the correct way.
So the snake´s nest under the tank will increase in size.

Click to expand...

Zip ties are your friend

olympus said:

Zip ties are your friend

Click to expand...

Yup. And a roll of this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EH6IZ6Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

... Highly recommended.

Hi Dave,
Were not the original Commando's, 4/68-3/69 Fastbacks?

Ed

dynodave said:

I find it highly understated and misunderstood that in the years of command production, the actual range of production differences were highly underacknowledged. One of the differences is that MY = model year is almost irrelevant. By closely studying series and variants of model runs shows a constant change of parts and modifications.
The final result is the unfortunate but humorous advice some folks offer not realizing how underinformed they really are...
Does this list help that much?

750cc
Original Commando 4/68-3/69
750 R 3/69-9/69
750S 3/69-6/70
Fastback 3/69-8/70
Fastback II 9/70-12/70
Fastback III 1/71-12/71
Fastback IV 1/72-3/73
Fastback LR (Long Range) 4/71-12/71
Fastback LR MkIV 1/72-2/73
Roadster 3/70-12/70
Roadster II 1/71-12/71
(no MkIII Roadster, apparently!)
Roadster IV 1/72-2/73
Roadster V 3/73-10/73
SS (Street Scrambler) 3/71-10/71
PR (Production Racer) 4/71-10/73
Hi-Rider 5/71-12/71
Hi-Rider IV 1/72-2/73
Hi-Rider V 3/73-10/73
Interstate 1/72-2/73
Interstate V 3/73-10/73
850cc
Roadster 1 3/73-12/73
Roadster 1A 9/73-2/74
Roadster 2/2A 1/74-2/75
Roadster 3 2/75-9/77
Interstate 1 3/73-12/73
Interstate 1A 9/73-2/74
Interstate 2/2A 1/74-2/75
Interstate 3 2/75-9/77
Hi-Rider 1 3/73-12/73
Hi-Rider 2 1/74-2/75
Hi-Rider 3 3/75-?
John Player Replica 11/73-2/75

Click to expand...

APRRSV said:

Were not the original Commandos, 4/68-3/69 Fastbacks?

Click to expand...

They were what later became known as Fastback once other models (S & R types) had been added to the range.

My 5 3/4" Hirider lamp has no issue with the shell switch nor harness. This, even with the shell being incorrect for the bike as the switch is located forward of the three warning light holes instead of rear of them, making switch even closer to the lamp fitting (BPF type).
Ive just swapped this over to Roadster 7" Lucas shell and lamp. Again, no issues with interference with internals though I needed to de-bend the lamp to rim wire clips to better fit shell. Clips were long leg type, stainless, from EuroJumbalaya. Legs had an extra kink in them and this prevented rim seating into shell.

rivera said:

So I thought it would be the same on a 1971 Commando.

Click to expand...

As Dave says (and his breakdown is almost correct), the differences in the electrical system between 69/70 Commandos and the 71s are substantial. The 69/70 Commandos had the ignition switch inset on a dimple in the left-hand side cover while it was moved to a bracket at the side of the air filter (key barrel pointing forward) on the 71s (I think that the type of switch was changed). There were many other changes to the switch gear, harness, components, and other electrical items. Also in 71, the "halo" headlamp trim ring (for the 7" lamp unit) was dropped and considerable changes were made to incorporate Interpol wiring into the harness.
In theory, the "S" in 69 (with a few in the first months of 70) and the first Roadster model (introduced in March, 1970 through the end of 70) were identical except for the exhaust system and color of the taillamp fairing. Also in theory, the Roadster replaced the "S" and "S" production ceased when Roadster production began -- mostly true but not exactly.

dynodave said:

I find it highly understated and misunderstood that in the years of command production, the actual range of production differences were highly underacknowledged. One of the differences is that MY = model year is almost irrelevant.

Click to expand...

The entire concept of a "Model Year" is entirely a North American concept (or, at least, was, at the time of Commando production). The Norton factory did not build to any type of model year - just as you describe - and changes happened at different months in different years (ditto). A lot of misunderstanding happened with various US States (and probably Canadian Provinces) requiring a "Model Year" designation to be placed on a Certificate of Title. For a Commando, that's completely fictitious. (And, to further mix things up, at least one importer was known to change the designated Model Year date on their "Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin" on January 1st. If it didn't sell in '70, it magically became a '71 in January of 1971. It was all a square peg being forced into a round hole.)

Also, the change to technical specification to the Fastback did not coincide with the introduction of the "S" and "R" models. The marketing name came into use, but the motorcycles produced were as the early Commandos (i.e. the 20M3 engine, exposed right-hand side oil tank, etc.). Changes to the actual build of the Fastback, to make them like the "S" mechanically did not occur until about August, 1969. Also, the "R" continued to be made with most technical items as the early Commando and never adopted any "S" characteristics (halo head lamp, exposed forks tubes, central oil tank, etc.) during the run of the "R" production; the "shared times", such as tank, seat, exposed rear fender/mudguard, silver metalflake taillanb fairing, chromed chainguard were included on the "R" from its inception.

(PS - I have a good story about the birth and design of the "sports" tank, as used on the "R", "S", and Roadster models.)

Blewdy Yaink said:

(PS - I have a good story about the birth and design of the "sports" tank, as used on the "R", "S", and Roadster models.)

Click to expand...

I think perhaps you might have already told us that one (about Bob Trigg and the electric carving knife?) unless it's another story which we'd be glad to hear or any others you can think of.

Another problem is most current production H4 beam units use a deeper reflector
this often fouls warning lights and switches when used in the Motorcycle shells , Original BPF use a shallow depth reflector which have more clearance

Blewdy Yaink said:

The entire concept of a "Model Year" is entirely a North American concept (or, at least, was, at the time of Commando production).

Click to expand...

The BSA and Triumph factories were well capable of working to model years well before Commando production started, it matched the selling seasons of where 80% of their production was sold and suited their annual shutdown timing in Aug. It seems to be a unique feature of the Norton Commando to move away from selling seasons and make changes non aligned to their major market. So you have Marks instead of model years and a greater number of running changes within the Marks to confuse even more.

rivera said:

Hello all!
As mentioned in another thread a friend of mine and me are putting together a 1971 Commando Street Scrambler. We bought the correct small 6" headlamp for it. But getting all the wires in and closing the lamp is almost impossible. The light switch and the idiot lights are in the way. Also the bundle of snakes of all the wires from the handlebar switches etc.
Because of the tab of the headlamp front ring which goes into a slot at the underside of the shell I cannot get the front glas/refelctor/ring assembly straight into the shell.
I have to insert the tab into the slot first and then tilt the assembly towards the shell but the connectors for the H4 bulb do not get past the light switch etc.

Anybody has a pic of the inside of his lampshell?

We assembled the headlight without bulb and connector to get it ready for a display at a bike fair this weekend.
All show -no go!
But I guess the owner wants a working headlight.

Click to expand...

I got sufficiently annoyed by the mess inside my headlight bucket (I have a '72 Commando Roadster set up as a cafe racer) that I finally just designed a PC board with modern connectors to rewire it all neatly. (While I was at it, I stripped the bike of all wiring completely and flipped it around with harnesses I made myself to where it's a negative ground system.) The PCB also eliminates the can flasher and contains the transistorized logic to drive the turn signals if you change them to LED's (which look really nice and pull a lot less current).

Just last night I got the new, bare PCB's in my UPS deliveries, and today and tomorrow I'll be soldering the parts down. I'll let you know -- maybe this weekend -- how it all went together. Physically, as you can see from the photo, the thing is an easy fit.

I realize this was a radical solution, but as a guy who designs electronics for a living, I found the "positive earth" system and Lucas-quality wiring to be way below my standards.

eoverton said:

I got sufficiently annoyed by the mess inside my headlight bucket (I have a '72 Commando Roadster set up as a cafe racer) that I finally just designed a PC board with modern connectors to rewire it all neatly. (While I was at it, I stripped the bike of all wiring completely and flipped it around with harnesses I made myself to where it's a negative ground system.) The PCB also eliminates the can flasher and contains the transistorized logic to drive the turn signals if you change them to LED's (which look really nice and pull a lot less current).

Just last night I got the new, bare PCB's in my UPS deliveries, and today and tomorrow I'll be soldering the parts down. I'll let you know -- maybe this weekend -- how it all went together. Physically, as you can see from the photo, the thing is an easy fit.

I realize this was a radical solution, but as a guy who designs electronics for a living, I found the "positive earth" system and Lucas-quality wiring to be way below my standards.

Click to expand...

Suddenly , I feel very old .........................