One Amal won't stop shut off and overflows

After fitting the new Stay up in their bowls with new needles there was gas leaking out all over the place including during a test drive . Got home , turned off fuel petcock and went to work again. Pulled the spark plugs on that first return to observe black soot. Got the floats out , and bent the tangs equally downwards by pressing them against a flat table surface.. Re-installed them , all drippings stopped , idle was better , smooth accelerations through the full range . Pulled plugs again to observe a nice even grey colour identical on both. So the moral of the story seems ... don't trust Stay-Up straight out of the box substitutions. The tabs as supplied new were much too high , causing floodings and richness. Just saving us all from gassy grief. :wink:
 
Torontonian said:
After fitting the new Stay up in their bowls with new needles there was gas leaking out all over the place including during a test drive . Got home , turned off fuel petcock and went to work again. Pulled the spark plugs on that first return to observe black soot. Got the floats out , and bent the tangs equally downwards by pressing them against a flat table surface.. Re-installed them , all drippings stopped , idle was better , smooth accelerations through the full range . Pulled plugs again to observe a nice even grey colour identical on both. So the moral of the story seems ... don't trust Stay-Up straight out of the box substitutions. The tabs as supplied new were much too high , causing floodings and richness. Just saving us all from gassy grief. šŸ˜‰
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This very thing is happening to me real time right now. Haven't touched the carbs, just put in new plugs and turned the choke lever off. Tickled the carbs and the right one won't stop seeping gas all over the place. These carbs were rebuilt about 3 years ago.
 
arcpoint said:
This very thing is happening to me real time right now. Haven't touched the carbs, just put in new plugs and turned the choke lever off. Tickled the carbs and the right one won't stop seeping gas all over the place. These carbs were rebuilt about 3 years ago.
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Try giving it a few sharp taps with a screwdriver handle to seat the float needle valve
 
Pull the bowl off if it don't stop, any carbs can do this could be some crud under the float needle or the float adjusted to high, or the float caught up on the gasket, it's only 2 screws to undo the bowl on each carb.
 
ashman said:
Pull the bowl off if it don't stop, any carbs can do this could be some crud under the float needle or the float adjusted to high, or the float caught up on the gasket, it's only 2 screws to undo the bowl on each carb.
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The PO installed aluminum viton tipped float needles pn# 622/197. Should these be aluminum? He got them from the Bonneville shop.
 
They should be ok
Although some prefer the brass needles with viton tips
It's more than likely just a crud issue if it was working ok but now won't
But just incase other things to look out for are pattern float bowl gaskets that catch on the float
arcpoint said:
The PO installed aluminum viton tipped float needles pn# 622/197. Should these be aluminum? He got them from the Bonneville shop.
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arcpoint said:
The PO installed aluminum viton tipped float needles pn# 622/197. Should these be aluminum? He got them from the Bonneville shop.
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Those are the newer type from Amal....can be retrofit to older carbs,,,but come on the new Premier types (as well as StayUp floats and anodized throttle slides).
 
arcpoint said:
The PO installed aluminum viton tipped float needles pn# 622/197. Should these be aluminum? He got them from the Bonneville shop.
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No matter what float needle is used crud still can get caught up under needle and the seat to stop it from sealing and cause the fuel to leak or over flow, fix it as you don't want access fuel running into the cylinders, once I left my fuel tap on all night (forgot to turn it off) my float needle stuck open and when I went to fire up my bike next day it spewed out oil and fuel mixture out of the breather hose and filled up my catch bottle and all over the shed floor as my motor started, what a friggin mess, has only ever done this once in 47+ years of ownership, so always turn your fuel taps off when finished for the day lol.
Such a little thing can make such a mess and can be very frustrating to a new owner and don't matter what carbs you run they all can do this.
Don't go changing carbs because of a minor mishap, it's a learning curve as well and what a way to learn about your own bike, after 47+ years I am still learning, I have been down the different carbs way and have found the Amals work the best on my hotrod Norton, why I have gone back to my old Amals, they are simple, easy to work on and easy to maintain, they do as any carb have their little problems, but maintenance is your best friend.
Once you master the Amal carbs and each carb is different from the other, a left carb can be set differently to the right carb including needle height and all, make sure you run clean fuel, filters not blocked from crud inside your tank to stop crud getting caught on your float needle.
This is your first Norton so you have a lot to learn, its only something simple so don't give up on it, its what you got to do with a 50 year old bike, they don't like to be sat for too long.

Ashley
 
ashman said:
No matter what float needle is used crud still can get caught up under needle and the seat to stop it from sealing and cause the fuel to leak or over flow, fix it as you don't want access fuel running into the cylinders, once I left my fuel tap on all night (forgot to turn it off) my float needle stuck open and when I went to fire up my bike next day it spewed out oil and fuel mixture out of the breather hose and filled up my catch bottle and all over the shed floor as my motor started, what a friggin mess, has only ever done this once in 47+ years of ownership, so always turn your fuel taps off when finished for the day lol.
Such a little thing can make such a mess and can be very frustrating to a new owner and don't matter what carbs you run they all can do this.
Don't go changing carbs because of a minor mishap, it's a learning curve as well and what a way to learn about your own bike, after 47+ years I am still learning, I have been down the different carbs way and have found the Amals work the best on my hotrod Norton, why I have gone back to my old Amals, they are simple, easy to work on and easy to maintain, they do as any carb have their little problems, but maintenance is your best friend.
Once you master the Amal carbs and each carb is different from the other, a left carb can be set differently to the right carb including needle height and all, make sure you run clean fuel, filters not blocked from crud inside your tank to stop crud getting caught on your float needle.
This is your first Norton so you have a lot to learn, its only something simple so don't give up on it, its what you got to do with a 50 year old bike, they don't like to be sat for too long.

Ashley
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I'm gonna try and make them work. The bike ran amazing when I first got on it. Surprised they didn't reverse the screw pattern for the bowls, would have made it a million times easier. The left screw on the right carb is under and behind the carb connecting tube. I am so not looking forward to taking it off and then trying to get it back on. Screaming just thinking about it.
 
arcpoint said:
I'm gonna try and make them work. The bike ran amazing when I first got on it. Surprised they didn't reverse the screw pattern for the bowls, would have made it a million times easier. The left screw on the right carb is under and behind the carb connecting tube. I am so not looking forward to taking it off and then trying to get it back on. Screaming just thinking about it.
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Also, pretty sure I'm gonna have to have these bored and sleeved so I don't run into warping issues, etc.
 
The only reason they warp is people over tightening the screws on the tops as well no need to over tighten the bowls if the gaskets are good, sleeving is usually for over worn slides.
If you remove the fuel hose banjos from the bowls you have easy access to the bowl screws, I can't see what problems you will encounter doing it right.
Most of the time its just easier to remove the carb and manifold from the motor, but only if you have the shorten allen key to get in, but just dropping the carb bowl is so easy, a 5 minute job if that, no use screaming about it as really it's not a big or hard job to do.

I just watch a YouTube on a 750 Commando S how to start it and the person (bike shop) just had no idea in how to kick it, he kept tickling the carbs after ever 3rd kick and he was using the choke lever the wrong way for choke and he was just kicking it without doing it right, took about 15 or more kicks to get it to fire then conk out so more tickling and more kicking, he just didn't have the knack at all, he was kicking it like a 2 stroke dirt bike and not even a full swing on the kicker, he had no idea at all and he was showing someone how it's done, after about 30 kicks it fired up and then he dropped the chokes down instead of raising them, was so sad to even watch.
 
arcpoint said:
I'm gonna try and make them work. The bike ran amazing when I first got on it. Surprised they didn't reverse the screw pattern for the bowls, would have made it a million times easier. The left screw on the right carb is under and behind the carb connecting tube. I am so not looking forward to taking it off and then trying to get it back on. Screaming just thinking about it.
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Amal makes Alan head screws to replace the Phillips head screws. Get them and you will be amazed how much easier it is to work with the Amals.
 
arcpoint said:
I'm trying so hard to like these Amals but it's getting harder. Tapped the carb, nothing.
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They were never meant to last long-term. In the 70s they were inexpensive and after one or two rebuilds, you replaced them. Today, since the volume is so low, the rebuild kits are expensive. Even after doing all I said in the other thread, you will have the old little ticklers and if you have them sleeved it will cost even more than $200.

A few years ago when I still sold on eBay, Amal parts were my big sellers. Today, I'm stuck with a lot of Amal parts because most simply upgrade to Premier and those that don't seem to enjoy paying the tremendous markups others charge or buy direct from Amal (again, way more expensive than me).

I can almost guarantee that the ones you have are warped in every way possible - too many gorillas messing with them over the years! You only tighten enough to flatten the spring washers - tighten more and you warp them!
 
marshg246 said:
They were never meant to last long-term. In the 70s they were inexpensive and after one or two rebuilds, you replaced them. Today, since the volume is so low, the rebuild kits are expensive. Even after doing all I said in the other thread, you will have the old little ticklers and if you have them sleeved it will cost even more than $200.

A few years ago when I still sold on eBay, Amal parts were my big sellers. Today, I'm stuck with a lot of Amal parts because most simply upgrade to Premier and those that don't seem to enjoy paying the tremendous markups others charge or buy direct from Amal (again, way more expensive than me).

I can almost guarantee that the ones you have are warped in every way possible - too many gorillas messing with them over the years! You only tighten enough to flatten the spring washers - tighten more and you warp them!
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Where can I buy your Amal parts? I ordered original floats for a great price considering the other sellers want stupid money for them. Definitely want Allen screws for the bowls. My goal all along has been to make sure the bike is ridable for at least a few good months before I tear into it, preferably this winter. No reason I shouldn't be able to pull this off as the bike was pretty thoroughly gone through by a more than competent guy who set out to make and keep everything as original as possible but for a few of the obvious choices.
 
The very first thing to do when tuning is to set the float levels. With twin carbs, they must at least be equal. If the idle is adjusted when the motor is hot, the motor should start first kick, even when the throttle is closed.
Spark plug colour is only used for setting the main jets, and it is not the colour -it is the black ring on the porcelain right down inside where it meets the metal. With hotter plugs, the black ring disappears quicker, so when setting the main jets use 7s then, fit 8s for normal use.
If you were starting a two-stroke and crack the throttle, the motor will often refuse to start. A well-tuned Norton engine is similar.
 
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arcpoint said:
Where can I buy your Amal parts? I ordered original floats for a great price considering the other sellers want stupid money for them. Definitely want Allen screws for the bowls. My goal all along has been to make sure the bike is ridable for at least a few good months before I tear into it, preferably this winter. No reason I shouldn't be able to pull this off as the bike was pretty thoroughly gone through by a more than competent guy who set out to make and keep everything as original as possible but for a few of the obvious choices.
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Not much point in doing it right when you're already piecemealing them. I have over $70k of parts but limited Amal left. The Allen screw sets have four screws and four spring washers. You normally use two sets when you have two carbs. If you only want them for the bowls, then one set would do. On my web site they are $9.12/set but forum members pay $8.00. Shipping to the US is $8.65 for everything that will fit in a USPS small flat rate box. I don't have any Major Stayup Repair kits for 750s. The ones for 850s (different needle) are listed for $59.97 but forum members pay $50.00. I have lots of new bowls and a few drain plugs. Bowls will not fit a small flat-rate box so the shipping goes to $17.65. they are listed at $47.99 but I have so many that I'll sell them at a loss for $30 each (they include the plug).

I have every Premier carb set for Nortons and I few are at the old price of $455 delivered in the US. The ones I got yesterday are $520 delivered in the US. Unlike others, I do not sell generic sets - I have the correct sets and any that come from Amal with #17 pilot jets I include a set of #19 at no extra charge. Most sell them for about $30 each but I have a special deal with Amal for Norton 750 carbs sets (850 sets already have #19).

My phone number is on every page of my web site.
 
arcpoint said:
I'm gonna try and make them work. The bike ran amazing when I first got on it. Surprised they didn't reverse the screw pattern for the bowls, would have made it a million times easier. The left screw on the right carb is under and behind the carb connecting tube. I am so not looking forward to taking it off and then trying to get it back on. Screaming just thinking about it.
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There is more where that came from.

Nothing wrong with the Amals.
You need to up your skills and meet them on THEIR terms.
(like anything mechanical)
 
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