Another attempt to get Motorcycles off the road

[Eljahara]

BBC report: 'Acoustic cameras' tested in bid to cut noisy vehicles

It starts off with all vehicles.....
“Motorists with vehicles breaching legal noise limits could face fines if new "acoustic camera" technology is developed, the government has said.”

“Much like the way a speed camera works, if a microphone in an acoustic camera detects a vehicle breaching legal noise limits, it triggers a camera to take pictures of the vehicle registration number and any other relevant images to allow a fine to be sent out to the vehicle owner, the government said.”

Worryingly.....
“The noise level deemed to be inappropriate is yet to be decided.”

And the real reason behind the move.....
“Dr Jonathan Moore, who chairs a campaign group lobbying to reduce noise along the A32 in the South Downs National Park, said people are "thoroughly fed up" with motorcyclists who drive through villages "hundreds of times a year" at anti-social hours.”

Remember, those who don’t ride often believe that ALL Motorcycles are loud and that loud = too fast!

Even the industry is bending over to get ass f****d
“Meanwhile, the Motorcycle Industry Association said cameras could reduce nuisance noise if they were used in the right way.
Chief executive Tony Campbell said: "Motorcycle manufacturers accept that they have a role to play and I think you'll see it more difficult to start tampering with vehicles in the future."

 

[bill]

this goes to what i have been saying about the hardly riding idiots. if the riders don't do something to stop the excessive noise with there straight pipes and heavy hand on the volume control (throttle) than the government will and you will not like what they come up with, but you cant fix stupid.

 

[Triton Thrasher]

Noisy vehicles are a nuisance to everyone.

Seeing this as anti-“biker” is the old victim mentality we used to read about in half-witted magazines.

 

[Eljahara]

Noisy vehicles are a nuisance to everyone.

Seeing this as anti-“biker” is the old victim mentality we used to read about in half-witted magazines.

I agree, I am not supporting a victim mentality, my point is that when you introduce an element of subjectivity to noise levels - particularly when related to Motorcycles - alongside the interpretation from non motorcyclists then every motorcycle is loud

 

[Triton Thrasher]

I don’t know whether these devices are subjective, but it has been the case that an English policeman’s opinion that your vehicle is excessively noisy is sufficient evidence.

 

[Eljahara]

I don’t know whether these devices are subjective, but it has been the case that an English policeman’s opinion that your vehicle is excessively noisy is sufficient evidence.

Agreed, the part that is open to interpretation is in programming the machine/camera and this is what raised my eyebrows....
“The noise level deemed to be inappropriate is yet to be determined”
Excessively loud vehicles give us all a bad name - arguing against a machine (camera/noise sensor) leaves no interpretation - a Police officer can apply common sense but “computer says no” is a problem.

 

[acotrel]

I don’t know whether these devices are subjective, but it has been the case that an English policeman’s opinion that your vehicle is excessively noisy is sufficient evidence.

Arbitrary coercion by authorities is a threat to the freedom of the individual. With neoliberalism, the answer is always 'shop around for a better deal'. America is 'home of the brave, land of the free'.

 

[acotrel]

In the UK, the Brits love their nostalgia kick. It depends on how far they want to set the clock back. If it is to the 1960s, we can have Mods and Rockers.

 

[Triton Thrasher]

Arbitrary coercion by authorities is a threat to the freedom of the individual. With neoliberalism, the answer is always 'shop around for a better deal'. America is 'home of the brave, land of the free'.

When do we attack?

 

[Eljahara]

America is ...... land of the free'.

My daughter lives in the USA and having spent quite a bit of time there “free” is not a term I would use!
In my experience, The number of rules that HAVE to be adhered to is much greater than in the U.K. or Europe.

 

[xbacksideslider]

Red light cameras here in California are operated by contractors who obtain exclusive contracts that SHARE revenues generated. Guess what results? Yellow light times durations get reduced so the number of red light violations goes up. Then, locals who learn of the “short yellow” stand on the brakes and get rear ended by the non-locals who assume a normal duration for the yellow light.

 

[texasSlick]

Here in Texas, red light cameras have been recently outlawed. It is reasoned that everyone has a right to cross examine his accuser, and the camera cannot be so examined.

Cameras have no way of reasoning or knowing what events transpired just before the flash. Acoustic cameras have no way of knowing the exact source of a sound. Some poor soul on a quiet BMW might be passing the camera just as a diesel truck going the other way puts on the Jake Brake.

As xbacksideslider says, cameras are a money spigot.

Slick

 

[Fast Eddie]

I was thinking similar Slick, an out of shot Harley on open pipes could tip the noise limit for an in shot legally quiet bike quite easily I’d have thought.

Similarly, depending on where they set the limit, many old but legal bikes could get snapped, leading to either incorrect prosecutions or costly court cases.

 

[acotrel]

My daughter lives in the USA and having spent quite a bit of time there “free” is not a term I would use!
In my experience, The number of rules that HAVE to be adhered to is much greater than in the U.K. or Europe.

Neoliberal deregulation creates the need for more regulation and arbitrary coercion by politicians . It is a power game.

 

[acotrel]

Here in Texas, red light cameras have been recently outlawed. It is reasoned that everyone has a right to cross examine his accuser, and the camera cannot be so examined.

Cameras have no way of reasoning or knowing what events transpired just before the flash. Acoustic cameras have no way of knowing the exact source of a sound. Some poor soul on a quiet BMW might be passing the camera just as a diesel truck going the other way puts on the Jake Brake.

As xbacksideslider says, cameras are a money spigot.

Slick

In Victoria, Jeff Kennett simply passed a law that the speed camera results cannot be disputed on the basis of calibration. It turned out that on one of our freeways, the speed cameras gave grossly wrong readings. But it was good for the state budget.

 

[Bernhard]

this goes to what i have been saying about the hardly riding idiots. if the riders don't do something to stop the excessive noise with there straight pipes and heavy hand on the volume control (throttle) than the government will and you will not like what they come up with, but you cant fix stupid.

I don’t know what has happened here in the UK, as there was the annual MOT test where any vehicle was subjected to the EEC noise law now it just appears that anything goes, as this wonderful government appears to indulge itself with cost cutting by removing policemen this is why the noise law is not enforced?

 

[Eljahara]

I don’t know what has happened here in the UK, as there was the annual MOT test where any vehicle was subjected to the EEC noise law now it just appears that anything goes, as this wonderful government appears to indulge itself with cost cutting by removing policemen this is why the noise law is not enforced?

Bernhard,
The MOT test can only look at what is fitted to the vehicle when presented at the test centre. Replace:
Open pipes with standard ones
Small number plate with a legal one
Small indicators with those that comply with the law
Etc..
Get the certificate and change it all back!

Not having actual Police officers and replacing them with machines with no option for common sense to be applied is much more of an issue, especially - as has been mentioned - when the machine measuring noise is not able to distinguish where a noise originates from,
John

 

[xbacksideslider]

I was thinking similar Slick, an out of shot Harley on open pipes could tip the noise limit for an in shot legally quiet bike quite easily I’d have thought.

Similarly, depending on where they set the limit, many old but legal bikes could get snapped, leading to either incorrect prosecutions or costly court cases.

No doubt there will be a PhD expert on hand to testify that the science utilized by this gee whiz technocracy is infallible and therefore no Harley or trucker’s jake brake could ever fool the sound meter. Ball’s now I’m your court. Wanna hire your own whore/expert? Or . . . Just pay the fine?

 

[swooshdave]

I was thinking similar Slick, an out of shot Harley on open pipes could tip the noise limit for an in shot legally quiet bike quite easily I’d have thought.

Similarly, depending on where they set the limit, many old but legal bikes could get snapped, leading to either incorrect prosecutions or costly court cases.

Microphones can not only detect the sound level but also direction so that should eliminate erroneous detection. Much like how they have systems that can detect a gunshot and determine which direction it came from.

 

[Eljahara]

Microphones can not only detect the sound level but also direction so that should eliminate erroneous detection. Much like how they have systems that can detect a gunshot and determine which direction it came from.

Dave,
do you honestly believe that cash strapped councils (local government) will invest in the highest tech? They are introducing these detectors to raise more cash from motorists - easier target than actual law enforcement.
John