Smoking 961

[bpjthornton]

Hello,

I’ve wanted a 961 for years, since they first were released in-fact. Finally i got round to buying one on eBay. I bought a 2015 961 SF with only 1300 miles on the clock. Super, got it for a good price too.

So today I got on the train early and made the trip from Oxford to Dartford (around 100 miles) and picked up the bike and paperwork. The bike rode like a dream all the way home, didn’t miss a beat. Only negative, I thought, was to buy a louder exhaust.

Got the bike home, parked it out the front of the house and left it idling for 1 min. Turned it off, and popped to the toilet in the house. Convenience break complete I started her up to go and meet some mates at the Open Day at a very local Suzuki Garage. I travelled 1 mile down the road and the engine cut out. Not ideal, but tolerable because I pulled in the clutch and rolled into the carpark where my friends were waiting. They looked a bit confused as they couldn’t hear the engine. So we had a chat and I did my best to wash over the unconventional arrival, I then decided I’d see if I could get it restarted, remember at this point I thought it had just run out of fuel. When it restarted there was soo much smoke, like plumes from a bonfire. Even with the engine stopped smoke continued to billow out the exhaust.

We did a compression check on the bike at the garage and both cylinders looked good. The RH spark plug was quite oily compared to the LH, this correlated with the volumes of smoke emitting from the exhaust. I decided not to run the bike again and have left it at the garage to work out what to do with it.

Has anybody else had smoking exhausts? Or similar? The guy at the shop thinks this may be a failed stem seal? The bike is out of warranty now and sold as seen so I will have to fund any work to correct it.

Any thoughts would be greatly received.

Cheers

Ben

 

[biggeoff]

Whats the oil level like first ,could be excess oil in the air box and when you braked it found its way into the cylinders

 

[Fast Eddie]

I’d have thought oil in the airbox too from what I’ve read on here. Or head gasket?

Did you buy from a dealer by chance? If so, I think I’d be putting some of this ball in their court...

Interesting story though Ben, I too really thought I’d buy a 961 from the outset, I always chickened out though. At least you’re braver than me!

Are you based in Oxford? I’m in Summertown, be good to meet up before winter kicks in if you’re up for it sometime.

 

[BritTwit]

Whats the oil level like first ,could be excess oil in the air box and when you braked it found its way into the cylinders

+1
Most likely cause.
The engine can push excess oil to the airbox, and if the drain plug in your airbox is still in place oil will pool in the airbox. Once the level of oil in the airbox is high enough, hard braking or a sharp turn can allow oil to pass into one or both intakes. A snoot full of 40 weight will make any Norton a smoker, and foul plugs.

 

[BLIGHTYBRIT/SF]

Richard 7 & his dad r the go to guy,s for us 961 er,s , pm them or I’m sure this message will be picked up soon, ask norton what updates have been done with the bike details ,fear not help is at hand & guidance from this forum

 

[BPHORSEGUY]

Pull your seat and check for excess oil in the airbox as noted by others above. If this is the problem the fix is fairly cheap and you won't have to do any engine surgery. Do you recall any heavy braking just prior to the stall?

 

[pingu-nz]

If your bike is 2015 then its a good chance its still under warranty.
Find out if it has had its first service and by who, which should include the head torque .
If your air box has filled with oil then you will need to check the air filter,and it will need the air box fix supplied by the Factory.
certainly find your local Norton dealer and contact them.

I have been draining oil from my air box for the previous 3 years after each ride, might be 20ml oil ,might be 50ml oil . once i collect 100ml oil, then i replace 100ml of new oil into the tank.

Good luck with your bike and enjoy

And yes the forum is your friend ,plenty of valuable people and advice

cheers
Paul

 

[bpjthornton]

Wow, good news! Maybe it is an excess oil issue. I will investigate before the any surgery performed. Thank you all for your advice, I will keep you posted.

 

[bpjthornton]

I’d have thought oil in the airbox too from what I’ve read on here. Or head gasket?

Did you buy from a dealer by chance? If so, I think I’d be putting some of this ball in their court...

Interesting story though Ben, I too really thought I’d buy a 961 from the outset, I always chickened out though. At least you’re braver than me!

Are you based in Oxford? I’m in Summertown, be good to meet up before winter kicks in if you’re up for it sometime.

Hey Fast Eddie. Yep i'm in Kiddlington. Give me a shout on bpjthornton@gmail.com and hopefully I'll have the Commando up and running.

 

[BritTwit]

bpj,

Another thing you want to check is your dipstick.
If your dipstick is the old one (smooth - no knurling) it will be too short to correctly measure oil level.
On the old dipsticks if you add oil between the high/low marks, you are over filling.
The new dipstick is longer, and has knurling at the end of it for measuring the proper oil level.

 

[bpjthornton]

bpj,

Another thing you want to check is your dipstick.
If your dipstick is the old one (smooth - no knurling) it will be too short to correctly measure oil level.
On the old dipsticks if you add oil between the high/low marks, you are over filling.
The new dipstick is longer, and has knurling at the end of it for measuring the proper oil level.

Cool, thanks for that. Mine has no knurling on it. So I'll be careful not to overfill.

 

[bpjthornton]

So massive thank you to all you. I had the bike dropped back to me, and on your advice I inspected the air box. As soon as I removed the filter I could see the pool of oil in the airbox. Turns out there was around 750 ml of oil infact!

With the oil drained I restarted the bike and the smoke from he exhausts began to reduce. Amazing! So fears of an engine out and big bill have been suppressed for now. Oil has been placed back in the tank. The airfilter was cleaned with petrol and reinstalled. But, think the air filter is scrap now as the bike won't idle with the air filter installed, it will idle with no air filter installed. However, couple of questions remain;

-How can I stop this happening again?
-Is it safe to run the bike without the filter (short term)?

Thanks again for all your advice

Ben

P.s. hopefully the links below show the photos......

 

[BritTwit]

Wow,

That's an incredible amount of oil in the airbox.
I suppose the previous owner didn't realize that the oil disappearing from the tank was going into the airbox.
That's why it's important to be certain you don't over fill the oil tank.
Did you check the dipstick? Does it have knurling near the bottom of the stick?

I'm not sure when Norton began supplying 961's with the longer dipstick.
If you have this type of longer dipstick then the correct oil level will show on the stick mid way up the knurled section of the stick.
If you fill beyond this point, the excess will end up in your airbox.

If you have the older, shorter dipstick with only high and low marks on the stick it is more difficult to get the correct level.
On these sticks the correct level will be below the low mark, just before the end of the stick.
Norton introduced the new dipstick because many people were over filling their oil tanks, and experiencing the problem you are having.

Which type of dipstick do you have?

 

[BPHORSEGUY]

Basically you can remove the plug from the airbox drain hose or install the factory fix for this. Many bikes were delivered without the plug and have not had a problem for years! Search this forum and you will find a good half hour of reading on this. Another option is to drain the airbox, remove plug every few rides!

 

[richard-7]

I have a manual on this.

 

[contours]

Wow!

 

[richard-7]

So massive thank you to all you. I had the bike dropped back to me, and on your advice I inspected the air box. As soon as I removed the filter I could see the pool of oil in the airbox. Turns out there was around 750 ml of oil infact!

With the oil drained I restarted the bike and the smoke from he exhausts began to reduce. Amazing! So fears of an engine out and big bill have been suppressed for now. Oil has been placed back in the tank. The airfilter was cleaned with petrol and reinstalled. But, think the oil filter is scrap now as the bike won't idle with the oil filter installed, it will idle with no oil filter installed. However, couple of questions remain;

-How can I stop this happening again?
-Is it safe to run the bike without the filter (short term)?

Thanks again for all your advice

Ben

P.s. hopefully the links below show the photos......

Thats gotta be an oil amount in airbox record for this forum. As it fills it also lessens the airbox volume so the bike runs different. Keep it plugged and drain daily. If its not plugged it drips onto your rear brakes while riding.

 

[pingu-nz]

The small hose you removed from the airbox ,chase it down to the end and you should find a plug in the end.
It is easier to remove that plug and drain oil after each ride ,should be far less than what you have just drained.
Certainly will be a lot less than you got this time .

Just wondering if the idle control valve has a gut full of oil as well ,this might be why it's not wanting to idle properly .
Have a read of the "throttle control manual "and it explains how to remove and clean .

Cheers
Paul

 

[richard-7]

Good one Paul. Clean the idle motor.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Strewth. 750ml of oil in he airbox, credit to the bike for continuing to run!

Surely there must become a point whereby the motor is in danger of ingesting sufficient oil to hydraulically lock the motor?!

Anyway Ben, it seems you’ve got a very simple and zero cost fix here.