When to quit racing and track riding?

I don't think age has much to do with road racing. One thing I would never do is start road racing late in life. The most dangerous time is when you are a beginner. I used to crash a lot, but you get past that stage, if you keep going.
I have known three car racing guys who thought they knew something about motorcycle road racing, and didn't. They all crashed almost immediately and never raced again. The last one was a Formula 5000 champion. He grabbed a big handful of throttle where you should not. He is very lucky to be alive.
I was bloody disgusted - I tried to tell him, but he was deaf.
If you ever encounter one of those - do not help them.
I am no hero - I don't do stupid things. I would never try to race a modern sports bike as a beginner. When he did that, I was devastated. It is probably dangerous to watch other guys road racing and fantasise. For him motorcycles were cheaper than cars, but he had plenty of money. So he was just being stupid.
One thing I have never done is worry about death. I should been dead many years ago, and I do not care where i die, as long as it is not in a cancer ward.
What many people do not realise is that death is inevitable. You cannot save up brownie points to live longer. If I died in a road race, I would not worry.
At age 81, I am already a winner. Most of my friends have died already.
It is really funny - when you are old, if you are lucid you know all the tricks. Ron Toombs would have been nearly 70 when he died during a road race at Bathurst. I would not even race there. But If you ever thought you could beat him, you would really be kidding yourself.
I would like to race again - just once. It would be enough to prove my bike is as good as I think it is. For me, it has never been about just winning races. That bike came out of my brain. Everything in my professional life has been at least distantly related to my love of old motorcycles. What is the connection between chemistry, engineering and old motorcycles ? - What do you like doing ?
Most of the guys in my class at Melbourne High School became medical doctors. I never wanted to do that. Do you think they really enjoyed their lives ? Money does not mean much to me. Your interests keep you alive. Being bored shitless is dangerous. Two of my mates became dentists - that would drive me insane - you would really get an adrenalin rush out of that. But I suppose holding someone else's life in your hands as a surgeon, might be exciting. Sidecar racers also do that.
I used to work in very dangerous places - keeping other people alive is important. Most of what i did in my life was about finding better ways to kill people. You need to be able to rationalise what you do. But having fun is also important. I love firing 5 inch naval guns. - 'Some things are so bad that they are good' ? I had the best jobs anybody could ever want.
- Motorcycle road racing is not dangerous unless you are stupid.. Many guys do not think - it can become a habit.

www.oldbikemag.com.au

Ron Toombs – King of the Mountain - Old Bike Australasia

In one of the sport’s greatest ironies, Ron Toombs lost his life on the very circuit where he was the acknowledged master. Had Ronald Arthur Toombs still been with us, he would have turned 80 [...]
www.oldbikemag.com.au www.oldbikemag.com.au
 
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Chris said:
How many years is it now, before the Acu take your licence off you & you have to start again. Do you have to do the race school again as well lol.😂
The garage calls, but I cant be asked lol.
My brains working well, bodies doing okay ish. Motivation at the end of the day to go out in the garage is sadly lacking. However I will be out next year.
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It's only 5 years with no licence before you go back to the beginning, and you need to do the flag waving course again!
 
SteveA said:
It's only 5 years with no licence before you go back to the beginning, and you need to do the flag waving course again!
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You do not need a race licence to dob a track day to make an on board video. But you might get some stupid car guy telling you about the dangers of mounting a camera on your helmet. Inroad racing, there are always people making more rules to promote safety. Prescriptive safety rules are based upon the ten commandments. However in the Bible, there are only two mentions of risk management. One is 'build my house on a rock'. The other is a religious law about sleeping on roofs whithout parapets. I wonder how many of those guys who talk to the fairies on the IOM have been killed ?
Some people worry too much.
A surgeon working in a hospital has many risks to deal with. How often do they have to retrain to keep up with the safety rules that some other idiot has made.

In Australia, most of our workplace OHS laws are now risk-based, rather than prescriptive.
I wrote most of this :

Guide for managing risk in motor sport / Standards Australia - Catalogue | National Library of Australia

catalogue.nla.gov.au catalogue.nla.gov.au
 
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acotrel said:
You do not need a race licence to dob a track day to make an on board video.
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You lost me a bit there Al....

Not 100% true everywhere, for example, I posted about dates for Bikers Classic at Spa, it's really only a track day, but you will need a 'training licence'.

In France they have 'Essais Libre' on the Friday before most race meeting. For these you need to show at least a 'Training Licence', you might as well have a race licence because the qualification and price is the same!

UK 'Parading is basically track day riding sessions held during a race meeting. To 'Parade' in the UK you can use your road licence up to age 70, then you need an ACU parade licence, the difference? Medical requirement.
 
Well...it was cardio visit today.

Discussed the race licence medical certificate. Straightforward sort of a guy. No.

What he said was you can't have that signed for 12 months after the angioplasty because if you do fall the risk of clots and stroke is too high.

It isn't about risk to the others, it's about risk to you. Next year maybe! (of course, the problem with next year in France is that the new noise limit of 96db for 2024 will kill French classic racing stone dead)

So, looks like Belgium only for at least this year then :p
 
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SteveA said:
Well...it was cardio visit today.

Discussed the race licence medical certificate. Straightforward sort of a guy. No.

What he said was you can't have that signed for 12 months after the angioplasty because if you do fall the risk of clots and stroke is too high.

It isn't about risk to the others, it's about risk to you. Next year maybe! (of course, the problem with next year in France is that the new noise limit of 96db for 2024 will kill French classic racing stone dead)

So, looks like Belgium only for at least this year then :p
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So we went to Belgium for the race meeting at Gedinne and.....as indicated elsewhere.....it didn't go well.....I suppose the writing is on the wall!

Didn't complete a lap, unless you count the ride in the van/oven. But I suppose showing up is a step more than I managed last year!

No big drama on the bike, but off it, it seems I had my second heart attack!

That is based on, 'yes, I felt like this once before', about a year ago. Anyway, I ended up with another helicopter flight from a racetrack, and a new stent, installed inside the stents fitted last November. Apparently they were blocked, though I had no indication of it beforehand. When they are doing this stuff you are fully conscious, the surgeon seemed a bit surprised when he found the blockage!

One issue is that I no longer have as much faith in this cardio technology as I did! However, I will be asking medical people questions about what next over the next couple of months.

Many thanks to all of those who helped us out at Gedinne with special shouts for the surgeon, the medic who sent me to hospital, Ralph (Storm42) and his wife and Eddy de Keyser (who organises Gedinne). I may be back but, really, common sense says it is all over for racing, if not track riding of all types. Though don't rule out me deciding later '3rd time lucky!'

However, two weeks later, I am still not feeling great and getting the medical appointments I need is taking a little more time than I wanted. Certainly, it makes sense that I have cancelled the track event I had entered later this month. The longer this goes on, the less likely a return.

Listen to your body? Be realistic! Accept reality? Well, I am trying. And I can at least see it won't be the end of the world, but adjusting to being an ex racer is proving more difficult than I had hoped, and I am resisting declaring total retirement from track activity, though I know it's probably time to do that.

As far as my bikes are concerned, I just want to get active enough to get into the workshop and complete the two race bike builds I have on. No more purchasing needed to do that. I won't sell them as projects, so I need to complete them. I shall probably try a potter on my AJS when the sun shines. As a positive my wife says I shouldn't sell the Rickman, but equally she didn't smile when I said, 'agreed, but there is no point keeping it as a museum piece!'

I also have to get moving on my MG maintenance, the Magnette I have owned for 41 years needs a bit of attention to put it back into regular use, and may end up being my longer term focus! I guess it's good to have a longer term focus when you are 70 in December.

There are lots of fun things on bikes in the past to remember, so it's not time to complain. However, I'm unlikely to have a strong desire to post on here for a while, stay safe.
 
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Hard call to make. I know a few people who retired, and had to do it sensibly.... never go to a meeting again "for old times sake" just in case
 
acotrel said:
I don't think age has much to do with road racing. One thing I would never do is start road racing late in life. The most dangerous time is when you are a beginner. I used to crash a lot, but you get past that stage, if you keep going.
I have known three car racing guys who thought they knew something about motorcycle road racing, and didn't. They all crashed almost immediately and never raced again. The last one was a Formula 5000 champion. He grabbed a big handful of throttle where you should not. He is very lucky to be alive.
I was bloody disgusted - I tried to tell him, but he was deaf.
If you ever encounter one of those - do not help them.
I am no hero - I don't do stupid things. I would never try to race a modern sports bike as a beginner. When he did that, I was devastated. It is probably dangerous to watch other guys road racing and fantasise. For him motorcycles were cheaper than cars, but he had plenty of money. So he was just being stupid.
One thing I have never done is worry about death. I should been dead many years ago, and I do not care where i die, as long as it is not in a cancer ward.
What many people do not realise is that death is inevitable. You cannot save up brownie points to live longer. If I died in a road race, I would not worry.
At age 81, I am already a winner. Most of my friends have died already.
It is really funny - when you are old, if you are lucid you know all the tricks. Ron Toombs would have been nearly 70 when he died during a road race at Bathurst. I would not even race there. But If you ever thought you could beat him, you would really be kidding yourself.
I would like to race again - just once. It would be enough to prove my bike is as good as I think it is. For me, it has never been about just winning races. That bike came out of my brain. Everything in my professional life has been at least distantly related to my love of old motorcycles. What is the connection between chemistry, engineering and old motorcycles ? - What do you like doing ?
Most of the guys in my class at Melbourne High School became medical doctors. I never wanted to do that. Do you think they really enjoyed their lives ? Money does not mean much to me. Your interests keep you alive. Being bored shitless is dangerous. Two of my mates became dentists - that would drive me insane - you would really get an adrenalin rush out of that. But I suppose holding someone else's life in your hands as a surgeon, might be exciting. Sidecar racers also do that.
I used to work in very dangerous places - keeping other people alive is important. Most of what i did in my life was about finding better ways to kill people. You need to be able to rationalise what you do. But having fun is also important. I love firing 5 inch naval guns. - 'Some things are so bad that they are good' ? I had the best jobs anybody could ever want.
- Motorcycle road racing is not dangerous unless you are stupid.. Many guys do not think - it can become a habit.

www.oldbikemag.com.au

Ron Toombs – King of the Mountain - Old Bike Australasia

In one of the sport’s greatest ironies, Ron Toombs lost his life on the very circuit where he was the acknowledged master. Had Ronald Arthur Toombs still been with us, he would have turned 80 [...]
www.oldbikemag.com.au www.oldbikemag.com.au
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I have been involved in car road racing at all levels since the late 60's. Bike guys make good car racers, car guys suck riding bikes.
My last deal with road racing has been building BMW's for Club Racing. Lots of middle aged guys who "made it" with lots of money.
I incorporated all NASCAR spec'd safety equipment, especially the cages, knowing the guys skill levels would be down so they needed all of the protection possible. My cages saved the lives of at least 2 guys.....

I raced in Club Racing for about 10 years, multiple National Championships, etc. But the medical issues with my back and neck told me it was time to quit. I knew a big wreck would be death, or worse, and I couldn't see sitting in a wheel chair for the rest off my life.
Even riding my Norton now, no way do I even try to ride it like I did in my 20's. Don't need any more pain and I have a lot of money into it to make it pretty.

I've seen guys go back for "one more race", or drive their cars "one last time" when they are up for sale. Results typically tend to be pretty negative. But everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do, and live with it.......
 
SteveA said:
I also have to get moving on my MG maintenance, the Magnette I have owned for 41 years needs a bit of attention to put it back into regular use, and may end up being my longer term focus! I guess it
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You Have a MG Magnette! Wonderful old bus, Walnut Dash, Column change , Big Bench seat; My old boy had one and I learnt do drive in it when I was 14. Please post pics when its done . Deciding to stop racing is one thing ,having to stop is competely different. I'm at that decision time as well, my health isnt stopping me at the moment ,it probably will soon enough, when racing I think i'm trying but the lap times and results dont show that , I seem to be quickly advancing to the back of the grid.
 
MexicoMike said:
We are good friends with the parents of a former World Champion moto GP rider and know the rider casually, seeing/talking to him on occasion. He doesn't ride on the street and discourages his dad from doing so, commenting that it's much too dangerous compared to riding on the track!

So maybe the thing to do is quit road riding and switch exclusively to racing! :)

Seriously, as noted, do what you are comfortable doing. I think it's like a question I used to ask retired people back when I was working, "How will I know it's time to retire?" The response was almost always, "You'll know when it's time." I found that to be rather annoying and unhelpful...but they were right. It was clear and obvious to me when the time came. I figure the same is true about any activity/interest - you'll know when to quit doing it. I don't think anyone else can "advise."
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My friend who was CEO of Winton Raceway was a bit surprised when I told him the motorcycle road racing is safe. It is safe because the risks are usually minimised to a tolerable level. The only time it is really dangerous is the first time you do it. I heard an interesting statistic two days ago. Apparently 40% of all fatalities on Victoria's roads in the last 12 months have been motorcyclists. The reason I started raxcing in 1969, was I was having too many near-misses on the roads.
My wife has put the kybosh on my racing - if I was injured, she would be my carer. But what she does not understand is, I am a long way past my crassh and burn stage. For me, riding at a practice day is exactly the same as racing - I ride the bike the same way. If you don't push a race bike when you ride, you lose concentration and can easily crash. You sometimes see guys crash when they are on their way back to the pits after passing the flag. They inadvertantly pass their braking point as they approach a corner and grab the brake.. I am horribly unfit, but some walking would cure that. With the Seeley 850 there is absolutely no anxiety - it is always an easy ride. I don't even have to think when I ride it.
These days it is difficult to get onto Winton. Broadford is an option, but it is a dog's breakfast. I would crash there.
If I wanted to race again, I could do it - but without support it would be psychologically bad.
 
Just back from last race for the season. My Manx is 14 years younger than I am. And feels as fresh as it was when it left Bracebridge Street 64 years ago. But I gets very tired when trying to push hard. Had to slow down a bit.
So maybe time to quit.
 
Mike40M said:
Just back from last race for the season. My Manx is 14 years younger than I am. And feels as fresh as it was when it left Bracebridge Street 64 years ago. But I gets very tired when trying to push hard. Had to slow down a bit.
So maybe time to quit.
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I bought a 240 volt roller-starter which is built around an angle grinder. Our local raceway has power points in the pits. I have found the most difficult thing about racing is loading and unloading my car and trailer. My old mate has died - he also used to road race, so with him around I did not need to think so much
My wife makes comments about my ability to ride. But my ability was burned into my brain many years ago. For me. racing a motorcycle is easier than driving my car. I usually encourage her drive the car because it bores me.
I still need to make an on-board video - one of my friend's sons lives in the next town and has raced a bit. Our weather is beginning to improve - so I might be in with a chance.
My Seeley 850 was just another project, but a video is worth doing - it would provide a conclusion, and would give Nigel a giggle.
I am really amazed it ever performed adequately.
 
I am 81. One of my mates is about 5 years older. He recently raced at Broadford and a young guy blitzed him. I think it upset his ego. Has declared his retirement, and I think he has lost the plot. Out of sheer boredom he has started working again. Getting old upsets some people.
If it was not so much hard work and bullshit getting there, I would race again tomorrow. These days we need log-books to prove the cheaters are not cheaters. Personally I do not care what other riders do to make their bikes faster. It is of absoluety no consequence. If they are faster, it increases the pleasure of beating them . Some people are easily defeated by their own mindset. When another bike flashes past you down a straight, it is easy to believe it is the fastest on the planet and admit defeat.
 
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