Hi all
I started a thread some time ago (What head is this? ) about the identity of the head on my 850 Commando. I wasn't ready to reveal the whole story as at that time I was still in discussion with the PO and also taking legal advice. The whole thing is now wrapped up so here is the story, as published in the most recent "Roadholder":
I have owned my Mk II 850 Commando for three years. It was manufactured by Norvil in April 2002. The first two owners covered just less than 4000 miles between them over four years. It was then owned by the chap I bought it from, where it didn’t turn a wheel for four years. So basically I bought an eight year old, immaculate and well-built Commando with only 4,000 miles on the clock. I had always wanted to experience the big Commando and overall I have been very happy with it having more than doubled the mileage to 8,500 in my three years of ownership.
Recently it had started to leak oil around the head gasket and it got progressively worse, so I decided the head should come off. After removing the head I concluded that the leak was probably only due to loose head bolts. In retrospect it may have been unnecessary to remove the head but I have never been convinced that just re-torqueing a loose and leaking head is a proper solution. Everything else looked in fine order but I replaced the inlet valve seals anyway before re-assembly. Imagine my surprise when I placed the new head gasket on the barrel and found it was too big! After head scratching and checking of part numbers I measured the bore and find that my 850 is in fact a 750!
This left me hugely disappointed and with a dilemma. The bike has always been registered as 828cc and has side panel badges to suit. If I were to sell this bike at some point, I could not in all honesty conceal the fact that it is not what it appears to be. In fact, I could very well be accused of misrepresentation if I ignored it. The only practical thing I could do is convert its identity to a 750 model by changing the side panels and the registration document and this is now in progress
I should make it clear at this point that the chap I bought it from sold to me in good faith and there is no doubt in my mind that he had no idea that the bike is not what it says on the tin. So where did this go wrong? I shall never really know and the more I have thought about it over the last few weeks I have come to accept that I should not waste any further effort and just get over it. If one of the first two owners altered the bike, then they are not likely to admit it. It may have been manufactured incorrectly and although I now have the Norvil build record showing that the bike is an 850.4cc (built with +.020” pistons), this does not provide conclusive proof as it appears to be a retrospective record of part numbers used that could have been documented in error. In addition, the build record states that two 12” front discs were fitted whereas the bike has one 14” disc. So wherever I look, I don’t think I will ever find the answer.
I've had a few questions since like are you really sure it is 750???? Well, yes I am and it is very easy to be fooled by the external appearance of this engine. The head is marked RH4S. I don't know what the S means but RH4 means an 850 head. However this head has 750 size combustion chambers. The barrel is 850 style but with 750 bores. So until you take it apart you would never know!
I have been advised that there is no legal recourse once six years has elapsed since purchase, so beyond the PO, there is nobody else to pursue.
I just wonder if anyone else has a bike with this head and barrel or if anyone has ever had a similar experience.
David
I started a thread some time ago (What head is this? ) about the identity of the head on my 850 Commando. I wasn't ready to reveal the whole story as at that time I was still in discussion with the PO and also taking legal advice. The whole thing is now wrapped up so here is the story, as published in the most recent "Roadholder":
I have owned my Mk II 850 Commando for three years. It was manufactured by Norvil in April 2002. The first two owners covered just less than 4000 miles between them over four years. It was then owned by the chap I bought it from, where it didn’t turn a wheel for four years. So basically I bought an eight year old, immaculate and well-built Commando with only 4,000 miles on the clock. I had always wanted to experience the big Commando and overall I have been very happy with it having more than doubled the mileage to 8,500 in my three years of ownership.
Recently it had started to leak oil around the head gasket and it got progressively worse, so I decided the head should come off. After removing the head I concluded that the leak was probably only due to loose head bolts. In retrospect it may have been unnecessary to remove the head but I have never been convinced that just re-torqueing a loose and leaking head is a proper solution. Everything else looked in fine order but I replaced the inlet valve seals anyway before re-assembly. Imagine my surprise when I placed the new head gasket on the barrel and found it was too big! After head scratching and checking of part numbers I measured the bore and find that my 850 is in fact a 750!
This left me hugely disappointed and with a dilemma. The bike has always been registered as 828cc and has side panel badges to suit. If I were to sell this bike at some point, I could not in all honesty conceal the fact that it is not what it appears to be. In fact, I could very well be accused of misrepresentation if I ignored it. The only practical thing I could do is convert its identity to a 750 model by changing the side panels and the registration document and this is now in progress
I should make it clear at this point that the chap I bought it from sold to me in good faith and there is no doubt in my mind that he had no idea that the bike is not what it says on the tin. So where did this go wrong? I shall never really know and the more I have thought about it over the last few weeks I have come to accept that I should not waste any further effort and just get over it. If one of the first two owners altered the bike, then they are not likely to admit it. It may have been manufactured incorrectly and although I now have the Norvil build record showing that the bike is an 850.4cc (built with +.020” pistons), this does not provide conclusive proof as it appears to be a retrospective record of part numbers used that could have been documented in error. In addition, the build record states that two 12” front discs were fitted whereas the bike has one 14” disc. So wherever I look, I don’t think I will ever find the answer.
I've had a few questions since like are you really sure it is 750???? Well, yes I am and it is very easy to be fooled by the external appearance of this engine. The head is marked RH4S. I don't know what the S means but RH4 means an 850 head. However this head has 750 size combustion chambers. The barrel is 850 style but with 750 bores. So until you take it apart you would never know!
I have been advised that there is no legal recourse once six years has elapsed since purchase, so beyond the PO, there is nobody else to pursue.
I just wonder if anyone else has a bike with this head and barrel or if anyone has ever had a similar experience.
David
